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Post by G on Sept 25, 2010 11:31:45 GMT -5
I guess to me, this begs the question....
Will all the downsizing, fat cutting, wing ending, title canceling, focus shifting that goes on. Consider that this might happen to other companies as well. When all the dust settles and comics become a leaner, meaner machine......Will it promote a better product or will we continue to reap the status quo?
Do you think that comics will reconsider what used to work in the past is no longer working and finally admit it to themselves and we might see an uptick in overall quality and not just more pose-a-thons sausage-fest covers with empty interiors like a lot of comics have done in the past? Could we possibly see a reemergence of more quality comics again down the road? Will cutting the fat mean better quality for what remains? Or will it continue to shoot itself in the foot and further induce it's own Hari-Kari?
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Post by bigw1966 on Sept 25, 2010 12:07:04 GMT -5
My friend Troy, who just got hired to work on a book for WILDSTORM, just got the email telling him the book was on hold, but he was told it would be going over to DC. He is doing something for Image now anyway.
I see Warners cutting DC off inside of 2 years.
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Post by G on Sept 25, 2010 12:11:27 GMT -5
I see Warners cutting DC off inside of 2 years. You think it is THAT extreme that Warner will cut off 70+ year old DC Comics? Downsizing I get, but I don't think I seen that one. Not that soon at least.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 25, 2010 16:37:55 GMT -5
I see Warners cutting DC off inside of 2 years. You think it is THAT extreme that Warner will cut off 70+ year old DC Comics? Downsizing I get, but I don't think I seen that one. Not that soon at least. Comics aren't making enough money to support a whole publishing division. My employer told us in the late 90's that we needed to be making double digit profit percentages or they were going to shut us down. The profit was good, but at the time it was only matching the bank interest rates. Their attitude was... "Why run a manufacturing plant when they can take the same amount of money, put it in a bank and make the same amount of profit?" The liability would be less. It's all about ROI... return on investment. If comics are just breaking even for them, them they are still tying up money that could be going into more profitable businesses. The characters are what have value. Licensing them out to another publisher would be guaranteed profit. I agree that Warner will be cutting DC loose within 2 years. You may see their characters under a licensing agreement with another publisher, but I think Warner has reviewed the recent sales drop and realized the publishing branch is not going to pull in more money. df1
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Post by G on Sept 25, 2010 17:18:33 GMT -5
But basically we don't see the total demise of DC.....Just let go of by Warner and run under a different owner? Or basically subcontracted out? I guess I can buy the cutting loose. I just can't buy "the end of DC".
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 25, 2010 19:22:25 GMT -5
But basically we don't see the total demise of DC.....Just let go of by Warner and run under a different owner? Or basically subcontracted out? I guess I can buy the cutting loose. I just can't buy "the end of DC". Jim Shooter said that DC was doing so poorly in the 70's that they almost negotiated to let Marvel have the rights to publish their characters. Wonder Woman supposedly sunk down to sales of 20,000 copies. It's not unfathomable that DC could just go away. If they quit printing comics, I have no doubt that Superman fans might follow the characters to a web based distribution. On the other hand, I think IDW or Dark Horse would cream all over themselves if they got a shot at publishing Superman. Collectors are all sentimental over Superman or Batman, but they don't need comics to explore the worth of them. Not anymore. It could be argued that the more they publish the characters, the more they water their worth. Do we really need a another storyline that tries to iron out the confusing discrepancies that have built up over time? Does it help indoctrinate a 4 year old into liking Superman by telling him it's Earth -1 Superman or post Crisis? The value of the character is his values, his super strength, his ability to fly, and that logo on his chest. The details beyond that are pretty much irrelevant if the goal is just to make money. df1
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Post by G on Sept 26, 2010 12:23:16 GMT -5
But basically we don't see the total demise of DC.....Just let go of by Warner and run under a different owner? Or basically subcontracted out? I guess I can buy the cutting loose. I just can't buy "the end of DC". Jim Shooter said that DC was doing so poorly in the 70's that they almost negotiated to let Marvel have the rights to publish their characters. Wonder Woman supposedly sunk down to sales of 20,000 copies. It's not unfathomable that DC could just go away. If they quit printing comics, I have no doubt that Superman fans might follow the characters to a web based distribution. On the other hand, I think IDW or Dark Horse would cream all over themselves if they got a shot at publishing Superman. Collectors are all sentimental over Superman or Batman, but they don't need comics to explore the worth of them. Not anymore. It could be argued that the more they publish the characters, the more they water their worth. Do we really need a another storyline that tries to iron out the confusing discrepancies that have built up over time? Does it help indoctrinate a 4 year old into liking Superman by telling him it's Earth -1 Superman or post Crisis? The value of the character is his values, his super strength, his ability to fly, and that logo on his chest. The details beyond that are pretty much irrelevant if the goal is just to make money. df1 While I don't think it is unfathomable that DC could go away, I personally, and this is just me personally, don't feel like we are that close to seeing DC shut its doors and cease producing comics. I think other dominoes in comics would fall before that would happen. I'll be one of the 1st to admit that comics ain't pulling them in like they used to and the industry is on very hard times. But I think restructuring and getting rid of the fat (junk pieces of shit) as well as other forms of trimming will keep them around awhile. Even when Marvel went bankrupt about 15 years ago, they never stopped selling comics. They went on to make some great moves and pay back ALL their debts and started putting out some high grossing movies and licensed out their characters for products and went onto to great times and never stopped making comics in the process. Back in the mid 2000's, it was one of the best stock purchases I ever made. From the ashes, they put it all back together. Sure the comic fandom was better back then, but I still think there is enough comic fans and time to turn DC around again. I know DC was nearly out in the 70's. I personally think we'll see them producing comics at least a few more years. If I'm wrong, I'll say you guys were right. I'll fully admit though, you guys may indeed be right and DC might be done within 2 years. If that is the case, then lets just remember this thread and come back to it when the time comes. Lets come back to it in 2 years and see where we stand with DC. I'm sure it will be different than now, but I'd like to feel like DC would still exist in producing comics. Maybe not under the same ownership, but existing none the less.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 26, 2010 20:32:19 GMT -5
Jim Shooter said that DC was doing so poorly in the 70's that they almost negotiated to let Marvel have the rights to publish their characters. Wonder Woman supposedly sunk down to sales of 20,000 copies. It's not unfathomable that DC could just go away. If they quit printing comics, I have no doubt that Superman fans might follow the characters to a web based distribution. On the other hand, I think IDW or Dark Horse would cream all over themselves if they got a shot at publishing Superman. Collectors are all sentimental over Superman or Batman, but they don't need comics to explore the worth of them. Not anymore. It could be argued that the more they publish the characters, the more they water their worth. Do we really need a another storyline that tries to iron out the confusing discrepancies that have built up over time? Does it help indoctrinate a 4 year old into liking Superman by telling him it's Earth -1 Superman or post Crisis? The value of the character is his values, his super strength, his ability to fly, and that logo on his chest. The details beyond that are pretty much irrelevant if the goal is just to make money. df1 While I don't think it is unfathomable that DC could go away, I personally, and this is just me personally, don't feel like we are that close to seeing DC shut its doors and cease producing comics. I think other dominoes in comics would fall before that would happen. I'll be one of the 1st to admit that comics ain't pulling them in like they used to and the industry is on very hard times. But I think restructuring and getting rid of the fat (junk pieces of shit) as well as other forms of trimming will keep them around awhile. Even when Marvel went bankrupt about 15 years ago, they never stopped selling comics. They went on to make some great moves and pay back ALL their debts and started putting out some high grossing movies and licensed out their characters for products and went onto to great times and never stopped making comics in the process. Back in the mid 2000's, it was one of the best stock purchases I ever made. From the ashes, they put it all back together. Sure the comic fandom was better back then, but I still think there is enough comic fans and time to turn DC around again. I know DC was nearly out in the 70's. I personally think we'll see them producing comics at least a few more years. If I'm wrong, I'll say you guys were right. I'll fully admit though, you guys may indeed be right and DC might be done within 2 years. If that is the case, then lets just remember this thread and come back to it when the time comes. Lets come back to it in 2 years and see where we stand with DC. I'm sure it will be different than now, but I'd like to feel like DC would still exist in producing comics. Maybe not under the same ownership, but existing none the less. I really don't understand why DC doesn't just go to a web based distribution with a POD (Print on Demand) option for customers that want a hard copy. I'm not saying I'd buy it, but I'm sure the overhead expenses would be less. As I stated on my board, if DC starts cutting production, the next domino to start tipping and shaking will be Diamond. If Diamond collapses at this stage, most comic shops relying on new product would essentially be gone. I think that's why JC Vaughn is really pushing Dark Horse on the message boards. He writes those scoop articles and spotlights all the new product that Diamond needs to do well. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Sept 27, 2010 15:41:00 GMT -5
The world is obviously headed towards the Apocalypse, because I haven't disagreed with defient for over a week.
I was also going to suggest that we may see DC characters asporting an IDW or Dark Horse Logo in the near future.
Warners is an International conglomerate. DC is just a division of it. They will not sell it because of the potential for profit. That said, the printed DC Comic may be living a short life span.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 27, 2010 16:58:10 GMT -5
Bob Harras named EIC at DC. Why do I feel like he's there to cut the production costs of the books? I expect the quality of their books to take a nose dive.
df1
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