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Post by defiant1 on Nov 9, 2013 12:45:19 GMT -5
Shooter is not involved with Valient in any way. The characters were purchased a time back by a couple of guys, who sat on them for a couple of years planning how to bring them back and then hired solid people to work on them. They have been well done. Far superior to the Dark Horse ones in every way. As for all of those other types of books whose genres you labeled as "Dreck" are of interest to me, because aside from comics, I read a healthy amount of Sci-Fi, Fantasy and Horror novels, with a periodic crime thriller or Espionage book thrown in the mix. Walking Dead, which IS great, is the number one book in the industry again this month. It has great writing. the art is solid and the book is free of all of the things that you pointed to as destroying your interest in other comics. But, as I have said before, it is a story that you would really have to give a chance too, like 3 trade paperbacks worht. I say this because there are no one and done stories here. no two issue arc's. Every one of them, runs the length it needs to. Usually 12 - 18 issues and the character growth is never ending. They are not frozen in time like the Superheroes. When someone dies, it has meaning and they are gone for good. That helps keep the book exciting and always surprising. There are a number of books like that right now. Jim Shooter WAS involved with VEI. The "two guys" hired him and he was working for them in secret before he left to go write Magnus for Dark Horse. He was stuffed into a small conference room and asked to write stories while two other people carried along a conversation next to him. He actually did a lot of work for them. Whether they used any of it is unknown. Just about EVERYTHING out there is drek. Walking Dead has such piss poor art that I'd rather read a story drawn by a 5 year old. How can you say a dead character really dies in a world where the living dead are the main adversary? The whole concept of zombies is stupid. My own mother who doesn't read comics or watch the show said "I'm sick of vampires, zombies, and characters with bows and arrows." This crap is so redundant in everything that comes out that I wish they'd ban it with a law for 30 years. I've scanned over two long boxes full of non-superhero comics that I own. I've had 40 years to buy and read all types of comic stories. Most comics are so decompressed that I'm not willing to read 3 TPB just to get the equivalent of one story in an EC comic. I have better things to do with my money. df1 |
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Post by G on Nov 10, 2013 2:49:54 GMT -5
Shooter is not involved with Valient in any way. The characters were purchased a time back by a couple of guys, who sat on them for a couple of years planning how to bring them back and then hired solid people to work on them. They have been well done. Far superior to the Dark Horse ones in every way. As for all of those other types of books whose genres you labeled as "Dreck" are of interest to me, because aside from comics, I read a healthy amount of Sci-Fi, Fantasy and Horror novels, with a periodic crime thriller or Espionage book thrown in the mix. Walking Dead, which IS great, is the number one book in the industry again this month. It has great writing. the art is solid and the book is free of all of the things that you pointed to as destroying your interest in other comics. But, as I have said before, it is a story that you would really have to give a chance too, like 3 trade paperbacks worht. I say this because there are no one and done stories here. no two issue arc's. Every one of them, runs the length it needs to. Usually 12 - 18 issues and the character growth is never ending. They are not frozen in time like the Superheroes. When someone dies, it has meaning and they are gone for good. That helps keep the book exciting and always surprising. There are a number of books like that right now. I am well aware of the background of ownership of Valiant and Valiant characters. I was a member at Valiantfans.com when the rights of Valiant characters were purchased. I had literally a dozen plus of their member exclusive limited fan editions which they treated like holy grails and banished you if you sold them. I sold all of mine and most for a hefty profit. My Harbinger #1 limited fan edition brought me over $400 by itself. I would say from what Ive seen their comeback has merit and you could say some of it has looked standout compared to most modern dreck out there, however most of it looks far inferior to the original Valiant and shows it is becoming just like all the other overhyped comics out there with endless multiple covers and lackluster efforts creeping in on a more and more consistent basis. Valiant is a wannabee of what it once was. Valiant is played out and to me just needs to go away so comics in general can finally just move on from the oasis in everyone's minds. We've all drank the kool aid and it's turning into sand. As DF1 pointed out Shooter was hired by VEI and was being paid to contribute but something soured there im not to sure of. But I didnt reference Shooter in light of VEI, I referenced him in light of Dark Horse who to me had the superior Valiant characters but also did even worse by far compared to VEI. But man Valiant mafia types dont want to recognize what Dark Horse did as having anything to do with Valiant even though they had arguably the best loved Valiant characters. Unfortunately Dark Horse just put out the biggest pure shit effort and further emphasized that Valiant whether its Dark Horses Gold Key characters or VEIs second string but certainly much better done output. It's a mirage and does more to stiffle comic growth than actually fertilizes it. Valiant is just living in the past in a sink hole where lightening wont strike twice. As for other comics, we all know all those paperback copy books were right up your ally but for the rest of us, it doesnt do me any good to blame good superhero characters as the problem and praise everything else as something more grown up and suited to the likes of you. I still say your creative heroes of the 90s who you gushed over along with so many others did more to send superheroes to shit than the characters themselves. The reason they repeated same old story lines was those same greats you praised started repeating the same old shit, brought us endless miniseries, mega crossovers and mutilation of the characters. I stand by what I say that the characters were great and the overhyped creators who suddenly got positions of power were idiots. And 9 out of 10 who were around when they first took over who were reading and collecting back then are frankly fed up and no longer reading and collecting today. |
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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 13, 2013 17:43:14 GMT -5
It goes further than that actually.
First to respond to Defiant 1. You are wrong. The Zombies are not the enemy in the Walking Dead. They are not even the subject of the book. It is and always has been about the characters. The Artwork, which you do not like is very fitting for the book and delivers more emotional weight than anything that Marvel is doing. It is very consistent and I have never had a problem with it. After issue 6 the artist changed. But, the key thing to keep in mind, is that the artwork fits the tone of the book. It should not be slick art like Frank Cho or Jim Lee or any of the Superhero style books. It would totally destroy the weight of the story if you were looking at that type of art. Plus, in my opinion, the art should be in service to the story and not an overpowering thing where you miss the story due to the art.
There is a reason that Walking Dead has consistantly beat out DC and Marvel in sales. There is a reason why it is also the number one watched show on television with increasing numbers each week.
The reason is because the storytelling s awesome. It gives you true human stories of tragedy and heartbreak, as well as fully showcasing each persons decent into some form of insanity or coping based upon the struggles they face in the world. How many comics actually deliver that? 2? 3?
Superhero books suck now, because of multiple reasons. The guys from the 90's that "G" mentioned, are an afterthought to that. People moved well beyond that era. No, the true problem is the readers. They are getting older and they are the ones holding the Publishers hostage with the whole Continuity crap. Continuity is great, but it has gone beyond good sense now. Characters cannot die. They cannot age. Marrying them creates boring stories.
Everything has to be an event that increasingly raises the stakes higher and higher, until it really cannot top itself.
I still love Superheroes and draw them all the time, but the books are just disappointing. The main reason is that I have read it all before and there is really nowhere for them to go now.
I personally wish they would start killing them off permanently and let someone new take over the role.
That is why I praised Miles Morales. The Ultimate Spider-Man. He is a fantastic character with a great backstory and brings a fresh edge to a post Peter Parker world. He will be coming to the 616 universe after Cataclysm ends Along with a new Captain Marvel (Male) I think it will be interesting when Miles goes looking for Peter Parker who he met in an excellent crossover, only to find out that Peter is not really Peter.
I am sure you guys know about Doc Ock transferring his mind into Spider-Man, killing Peter Parker and taking over his life right? I actually wanted to hate the shit out of that but, I gotta admit, the book is actually pretty damn good. It stands apart from the old Spidey Books and has an interesting approach to Octavious. I want to see the final fallout from that story more than anything because it will actually shake the Marvel Universe.
Valient's current slate of titles, are solid. Quantum and Woody is hilarious every issue. Harbinger is thrilling overall. Archer and Armstrong is still the coolest book in the lineup. XO has taken a different approach to the character and it is really working out well. Cary Nord is a good artist also. His Conan is often compared to Frazetta.
Shadowman is building its story out slowly and Bloodshot has been tweaked and improved from the old version.
Honestly, outside of BPRD, they are the only books I actually attempt to follow.
The have already released the first round of trades for $9.99 each. That is a good buy in price. to see how they are handling the books. No Doctor Solar though and no plan to bring him or Magnus out. But Magnus is a possibility since they just announced that Rai would be returning.
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Post by defiant1 on Nov 13, 2013 21:52:30 GMT -5
It goes further than that actually. First to respond to Defiant 1. You are wrong. The Zombies are not the enemy in the Walking Dead. They are not even the subject of the book. It is and always has been about the characters. The Artwork, which you do not like is very fitting for the book and delivers more emotional weight than anything that Marvel is doing. It is very consistent and I have never had a problem with it. After issue 6 the artist changed. But, the key thing to keep in mind, is that the artwork fits the tone of the book. It should not be slick art like Frank Cho or Jim Lee or any of the Superhero style books. It would totally destroy the weight of the story if you were looking at that type of art. Plus, in my opinion, the art should be in service to the story and not an overpowering thing where you miss the story due to the art. There is a reason that Walking Dead has consistantly beat out DC and Marvel in sales. There is a reason why it is also the number one watched show on television with increasing numbers each week. The reason is because the storytelling s awesome. It gives you true human stories of tragedy and heartbreak, as well as fully showcasing each persons decent into some form of insanity or coping based upon the struggles they face in the world. How many comics actually deliver that? 2? 3? Superhero books suck now, because of multiple reasons. The guys from the 90's that "G" mentioned, are an afterthought to that. People moved well beyond that era. No, the true problem is the readers. They are getting older and they are the ones holding the Publishers hostage with the whole Continuity crap. Continuity is great, but it has gone beyond good sense now. Characters cannot die. They cannot age. Marrying them creates boring stories. Everything has to be an event that increasingly raises the stakes higher and higher, until it really cannot top itself. I still love Superheroes and draw them all the time, but the books are just disappointing. The main reason is that I have read it all before and there is really nowhere for them to go now. I personally wish they would start killing them off permanently and let someone new take over the role. That is why I praised Miles Morales. The Ultimate Spider-Man. He is a fantastic character with a great backstory and brings a fresh edge to a post Peter Parker world. He will be coming to the 616 universe after Cataclysm ends Along with a new Captain Marvel (Male) I think it will be interesting when Miles goes looking for Peter Parker who he met in an excellent crossover, only to find out that Peter is not really Peter. I am sure you guys know about Doc Ock transferring his mind into Spider-Man, killing Peter Parker and taking over his life right? I actually wanted to hate the shit out of that but, I gotta admit, the book is actually pretty damn good. It stands apart from the old Spidey Books and has an interesting approach to Octavious. I want to see the final fallout from that story more than anything because it will actually shake the Marvel Universe. Valient's current slate of titles, are solid. Quantum and Woody is hilarious every issue. Harbinger is thrilling overall. Archer and Armstrong is still the coolest book in the lineup. XO has taken a different approach to the character and it is really working out well. Cary Nord is a good artist also. His Conan is often compared to Frazetta. Shadowman is building its story out slowly and Bloodshot has been tweaked and improved from the old version. Honestly, outside of BPRD, they are the only books I actually attempt to follow. The have already released the first round of trades for $9.99 each. That is a good buy in price. to see how they are handling the books. No Doctor Solar though and no plan to bring him or Magnus out. But Magnus is a possibility since they just announced that Rai would be returning. I understand WHY Walking Dead is popular and I understand that you and others do like the art. EC had zombie stories and the art was perfect for them. I preferred Johnny Craig and Al Williamson's art style, but I had no complaint about the art on the horror titles. Heck, we even get those multiflavor drink machines at the movie theaters thanks to a genius son of an EC artist. You might be interested in seeing what Jim Shooter said about working for VEI. reread this the other day. The post was made by Jim's friend and former Valiant colorist Janet "JayJay" Jackson.  Couldn't disagree more about continuity holding back superheroes. Bad continuity maybe. Forced continuity maybe. Reversed continuity maybe. Continuity is what gives everything significance. I'm annoyed that Marvel wants to release a Ms. Marvel series with a new character. She's going to be Muslim which is interesting, but why reuse the name? Why can't they make a new character? Maybe a title based upon something Arabic to pay tribute to their plans? Marvel lacks proper continuity. Instead they force "events" onto the universe which is tiresome. When crossovers were rare they were cool. When heroes had a personal life, it gave them depth. All the cool things about continuity are discarded. df1 |
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Post by G on Nov 14, 2013 23:12:20 GMT -5
Superhero books suck now, because of multiple reasons. The guys from the 90's that "G" mentioned, are an afterthought to that. People moved well beyond that era. No, the true problem is the readers. They are getting older and they are the ones holding the Publishers hostage with the whole Continuity crap. Continuity is great, but it has gone beyond good sense now. Characters cannot die. They cannot age. Marrying them creates boring stories. Everything has to be an event that increasingly raises the stakes higher and higher, until it really cannot top itself. I still love Superheroes and draw them all the time, but the books are just disappointing. The main reason is that I have read it all before and there is really nowhere for them to go now. I personally wish they would start killing them off permanently and let someone new take over the role. That is why I praised Miles Morales. The Ultimate Spider-Man. He is a fantastic character with a great backstory and brings a fresh edge to a post Peter Parker world. He will be coming to the 616 universe after Cataclysm ends Along with a new Captain Marvel (Male) I think it will be interesting when Miles goes looking for Peter Parker who he met in an excellent crossover, only to find out that Peter is not really Peter. I am sure you guys know about Doc Ock transferring his mind into Spider-Man, killing Peter Parker and taking over his life right? I actually wanted to hate the shit out of that but, I gotta admit, the book is actually pretty damn good. It stands apart from the old Spidey Books and has an interesting approach to Octavious. I want to see the final fallout from that story more than anything because it will actually shake the Marvel Universe. Valient's current slate of titles, are solid. Quantum and Woody is hilarious every issue. Harbinger is thrilling overall. Archer and Armstrong is still the coolest book in the lineup. XO has taken a different approach to the character and it is really working out well. Cary Nord is a good artist also. His Conan is often compared to Frazetta. Shadowman is building its story out slowly and Bloodshot has been tweaked and improved from the old version. Honestly, outside of BPRD, they are the only books I actually attempt to follow. The have already released the first round of trades for $9.99 each. That is a good buy in price. to see how they are handling the books. No Doctor Solar though and no plan to bring him or Magnus out. But Magnus is a possibility since they just announced that Rai would be returning. Those guys from the 90s are not an afterthought. They are doing quite a job at fucking up the craft of comics til this day, especially with superheroes. Guys like Quasada, Lee, McFarlane, Larson who became all the rage during the 90s, eventually took positions of power where their terrible work ethics and lack of a true company vision destroyed superheroes and continuity be damned. DF1 nailed it when he talked about continuity. Continuity worked fantastic for the most part from the 60s to the 90s but it was overtaken by the mini series and the mega crossover events. True not everything worked with continuity but if it got off track it was easy to right the ship and great runs of comics did just that. Instead leadership died and pointless stand alone stories got rammed down our throat with each creator wanting to put their mark on a character and molesting the character even more. One of the worst buzzwords most fanboys like to lay on us when we say shit is fucked up now is that characters had too much backstory which is just copout bullshit spooned to us to justify how badly things have become. If Mile Morales is so great why does he have to be Spiderman? Probably because he would be weak without being tagged along with Spiderman. Im not for characters being overtaken by other characters and yet keeping the character name as the person who wore it before happens over and over. What is the point? It says successful characters with tons of sales and background and fan appeal have to be someone new for us to continue to attract new readers. The hostage taking is not being done by the fans, its being done by the creators who no longer get told no, are not given direction and run amuck with anything they think is cool and will glorify their own names. Comics is a rudderless ship full of incompetents who should do nothing more than write or draw instead of molesting the craft of comics. Those same afterthoughts are the same group who tried to bring us Image United and then made excuse after excuse with finger pointing as they tried to sweep that debacle under the rug. Fans are the victims, not the ones holding back comics and one by one they disappear never to buy a comic again as those remaining and liking the current state become the ones saying its us who are the problem. The 90% that walked away over a 20 year period. And not pointing the finger at those who continue to spew out more garbage than the previous year over and over. |
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Post by defiant1 on Nov 16, 2013 8:13:13 GMT -5
Superhero books suck now, because of multiple reasons. The guys from the 90's that "G" mentioned, are an afterthought to that. People moved well beyond that era. No, the true problem is the readers. They are getting older and they are the ones holding the Publishers hostage with the whole Continuity crap. Continuity is great, but it has gone beyond good sense now. Characters cannot die. They cannot age. Marrying them creates boring stories. Everything has to be an event that increasingly raises the stakes higher and higher, until it really cannot top itself. I still love Superheroes and draw them all the time, but the books are just disappointing. The main reason is that I have read it all before and there is really nowhere for them to go now. I personally wish they would start killing them off permanently and let someone new take over the role. That is why I praised Miles Morales. The Ultimate Spider-Man. He is a fantastic character with a great backstory and brings a fresh edge to a post Peter Parker world. He will be coming to the 616 universe after Cataclysm ends Along with a new Captain Marvel (Male) I think it will be interesting when Miles goes looking for Peter Parker who he met in an excellent crossover, only to find out that Peter is not really Peter. I am sure you guys know about Doc Ock transferring his mind into Spider-Man, killing Peter Parker and taking over his life right? I actually wanted to hate the shit out of that but, I gotta admit, the book is actually pretty damn good. It stands apart from the old Spidey Books and has an interesting approach to Octavious. I want to see the final fallout from that story more than anything because it will actually shake the Marvel Universe. Valient's current slate of titles, are solid. Quantum and Woody is hilarious every issue. Harbinger is thrilling overall. Archer and Armstrong is still the coolest book in the lineup. XO has taken a different approach to the character and it is really working out well. Cary Nord is a good artist also. His Conan is often compared to Frazetta. Shadowman is building its story out slowly and Bloodshot has been tweaked and improved from the old version. Honestly, outside of BPRD, they are the only books I actually attempt to follow. The have already released the first round of trades for $9.99 each. That is a good buy in price. to see how they are handling the books. No Doctor Solar though and no plan to bring him or Magnus out. But Magnus is a possibility since they just announced that Rai would be returning. Those guys from the 90s are not an afterthought. They are doing quite a job at fucking up the craft of comics til this day, especially with superheroes. Guys like Quasada, Lee, McFarlane, Larson who became all the rage during the 90s, eventually took positions of power where their terrible work ethics and lack of a true company vision destroyed superheroes and continuity be damned. DF1 nailed it when he talked about continuity. Continuity worked fantastic for the most part from the 60s to the 90s but it was overtaken by the mini series and the mega crossover events. True not everything worked with continuity but if it got off track it was easy to right the ship and great runs of comics did just that. Instead leadership died and pointless stand alone stories got rammed down our throat with each creator wanting to put their mark on a character and molesting the character even more. One of the worst buzzwords most fanboys like to lay on us when we say shit is fucked up now is that characters had too much backstory which is just copout bullshit spooned to us to justify how badly things have become. If Mile Morales is so great why does he have to be Spiderman? Probably because he would be weak without being tagged along with Spiderman. Im not for characters being overtaken by other characters and yet keeping the character name as the person who wore it before happens over and over. What is the point? It says successful characters with tons of sales and background and fan appeal have to be someone new for us to continue to attract new readers. The hostage taking is not being done by the fans, its being done by the creators who no longer get told no, are not given direction and run amuck with anything they think is cool and will glorify their own names. Comics is a rudderless ship full of incompetents who should do nothing more than write or draw instead of molesting the craft of comics. Those same afterthoughts are the same group who tried to bring us Image United and then made excuse after excuse with finger pointing as they tried to sweep that debacle under the rug. Fans are the victims, not the ones holding back comics and one by one they disappear never to buy a comic again as those remaining and liking the current state become the ones saying its us who are the problem. The 90% that walked away over a 20 year period. And not pointing the finger at those who continue to spew out more garbage than the previous year over and over. "Modern creators, molesting the craft of comics one book at a time." df1 |
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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 26, 2013 12:37:36 GMT -5
Continuity, has been getting rebooted since Crisis on Infinite Earths. They have to. You cannot run characters for decades at the same age, and keep building the continuity. Stories have a beginning a middle and an End. So does Real Life. You are born. You grow. You die. Comics will not allow that though because the ever increasing ages of the readership will not allow it.
Additionally, that ever increasing age, is also why the stories have to become continually more complex. We demand things that make sense to our level of knowledge. When you make things more complex, you make the stakes higher.
Superheroes were simple empowerment creations to build confidence in kids. To give them something to aspire to. Hell, much of my personality was shaped by the perserverance and struggles of Peter Parker and the Can Do attitude of Captain America. Along with Bruce Wayne showing what one man can accomplish if he puts his mind to it.
As for the young guys. They are not destroying comics. They are destroying YOUR view of what comics are. That is because you are a reader from a past era that does not exist anymore.
Man of Steel is a good way to point this out. People like us, who were weaned on the Richard Donner Superman, are nostalgic for that version, even though the modern world is very different now and the character, is nothing like the Donner version in the books.
Miles Moralis, exists for a couple of reasons.
1. There had already been about 1000 stories written that had Peter Parker. anything that is written is just a regurgitation of old stories.
2. There is a very popular actor from the Disney Channel that is also on Community. He was being discussed as a potential Spider-Man.
That right there opened the door for killing off Peter Parker, in a very heroic way and opening the door for Miles Moralis whose origin, is very similar but very different from Peter Parker's.
The character has had trauma on the same level as Peter, and his connection to Mary Jane and Gwen Stacey as well as the Ultimates, has allowed him to learn what Drove Peter and has given him something to aspire too.
Honestly, the stuff you are wishing to see in comics is actually happening in the Miles Morales version of Ultimate Spider-Man.
The reason also that they do not kill the name is because the character becomes legendary, while remaining anonymous. That allows for someone else to step into the role, creating a whole new dynamic for stories. It has worked for Green Lantern for over 50 years.
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Post by G on Nov 27, 2013 0:36:05 GMT -5
You know when you read characters who run around and fly in tights and shot beams from their hands and eyes you don't need to worry about characters aging or dying or things like that. Youve already forfeitted certain realisms already. Charlie Brown was around 50 years as a child and never aged a day but nobody cared. The argument that things are regurgitated is an excuse and apologizes for the current state of comics. If this is the case no one ever needs to watch a tv show or listen to a song or read a book of any kind ever again because everything has been done before or takes off of something that already existed.
I can get behind 200 issues of a comic going by and believing that only 1-2 years has went by. In todays terms, 200 issues is roughly about 16- 32 story arcs except today their is no concept of what came before and what takes place after. The character universes are now just floating characters being asked to guest star in whatever needs a character insertion. What exists is chaos to a collector trying to be a reader. It might be great if all you care about is self contained stories but collectors who enjoyed continuation and enjoyed completing a collection of their favorite characters have been thrown to the wayside because its all been reduced to a bunch of disjointed mini series where time is irrelevant and changes to the characters take place under the creatures whim. I don't know how many times I see news feeds like CBR proclaim a new creative group is going to take over a title and here is a rundown of the list of changes they plan on making to the characters. We are asked not to care any more and just be okay with whatever they decided instead of following a leaders leadership and vision of where the characters and titles are heading. Fans are fed up and what remains is readers of tpbs and mini series who are fine just reading a story but the people who left cared about the characters and the collections they built over decades.
Blaming regurgitation, continuity and back story is a copout for lack of talent and vision. If they were regurgitating things then a leader should step in and fix it or get new creators on the job but someone has to be responsible when things go downhill instead of just being like oh well, that guys take on the characters sucked. Comics at its best could continue forever and age little. Comics at its worst does what it wants and blames the loyal readers who left as those who just didn't get it like they do.
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