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Post by G on Jun 11, 2010 22:15:32 GMT -5
It can take decades for characters to become icons. And becoming one is easy staying as one is a lot harder. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but that statement seems contradictory. I would say that it is not easy to become an icon, but staying one is easy. It would seem on average, an icon is realized within about 20 years from initial launch, if not sooner. Granted, it takes some time. No hero worth becoming iconic will get there without putting in some dues. I'm just thinking since about the time of TMNT, there hasn't been anything I would considered truly iconic and there has been enough time for it to come to pass. Perhaps looking at anything released in the last 15 years should get a free pass, but anything from before then should be fair game. And while a few come close to being contenders, I wouldn't personally put any of them as reaching icon status. I would just call them successful properties. Regardless, I think with the shift in culture turning away from comics over time, it seems unlikely that comics will remain a breeding ground for future icons. It will more likely come from tv, movies or some other form of media in the future. Which ultimately, I think is a sad reality for comics.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 12, 2010 6:33:22 GMT -5
It can take decades for characters to become icons. And becoming one is easy staying as one is a lot harder. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but that statement seems contradictory. I would say that it is not easy to become an icon, but staying one is easy. It would seem on average, an icon is realized within about 20 years from initial launch, if not sooner. Granted, it takes some time. No hero worth becoming iconic will get there without putting in some dues. I'm just thinking since about the time of TMNT, there hasn't been anything I would considered truly iconic and there has been enough time for it to come to pass. Perhaps looking at anything released in the last 15 years should get a free pass, but anything from before then should be fair game. And while a few come close to being contenders, I wouldn't personally put any of them as reaching icon status. I would just call them successful properties. Regardless, I think with the shift in culture turning away from comics over time, it seems unlikely that comics will remain a breeding ground for future icons. It will more likely come from tv, movies or some other form of media in the future. Which ultimately, I think is a sad reality for comics. You can be icon for a certain era. I would call for example Spawn a 90s icon, but I do NOT consider Spawn a timeless pop culture icon like Superman or Spider-Man. Spawn is an icon of the 90s, because the character and created represented the ideas and attitude of that decade. There was a point in the 90s when Spawn was considered by many fans to be in the same league of characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and Wolverine however once the newness of Image wore off and McFarlane's ego and "bad boy" attitude started showing what an asshole he was, most fans have left Spawn and Todd McFarlane in the 90s where they both belong.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 12, 2010 23:35:49 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but that statement seems contradictory. I would say that it is not easy to become an icon, but staying one is easy. It would seem on average, an icon is realized within about 20 years from initial launch, if not sooner. Granted, it takes some time. No hero worth becoming iconic will get there without putting in some dues. I'm just thinking since about the time of TMNT, there hasn't been anything I would considered truly iconic and there has been enough time for it to come to pass. Perhaps looking at anything released in the last 15 years should get a free pass, but anything from before then should be fair game. And while a few come close to being contenders, I wouldn't personally put any of them as reaching icon status. I would just call them successful properties. Regardless, I think with the shift in culture turning away from comics over time, it seems unlikely that comics will remain a breeding ground for future icons. It will more likely come from tv, movies or some other form of media in the future. Which ultimately, I think is a sad reality for comics. You can be icon for a certain era. I would call for example Spawn a 90s icon, but I do NOT consider Spawn a timeless pop culture icon like Superman or Spider-Man. Spawn is an icon of the 90s, because the character and created represented the ideas and attitude of that decade. There was a point in the 90s when Spawn was considered by many fans to be in the same league of characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and Wolverine however once the newness of Image wore off and McFarlane's ego and "bad boy" attitude started showing what an asshole he was, most fans have left Spawn and Todd McFarlane in the 90s where they both belong. G... I haven't had an opportunity to post, but I was going to say he's right. Captain Marvel was more popular than Superman. Do you remember how big the Bay City Rollers were in the 70's? It takes a lot for something to be iconic. People thought the Micronauts was iconic. People think Walking Dead is iconic. Once you get past Spiderman, Superman and Batman and Mickey Mouse (only God knows why!) there isn't much else. Hulk is right up there and Iron Man may be soon... df1
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Post by G on Jun 13, 2010 9:19:36 GMT -5
You can be icon for a certain era. I would call for example Spawn a 90s icon, but I do NOT consider Spawn a timeless pop culture icon like Superman or Spider-Man. Spawn is an icon of the 90s, because the character and created represented the ideas and attitude of that decade. There was a point in the 90s when Spawn was considered by many fans to be in the same league of characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and Wolverine however once the newness of Image wore off and McFarlane's ego and "bad boy" attitude started showing what an asshole he was, most fans have left Spawn and Todd McFarlane in the 90s where they both belong. G... I haven't had an opportunity to post, but I was going to say he's right. Captain Marvel was more popular than Superman. Do you remember how big the Bay City Rollers were in the 70's? It takes a lot for something to be iconic. People thought the Micronauts was iconic. People think Walking Dead is iconic. Once you get past Spiderman, Superman and Batman and Mickey Mouse (only God knows why!) there isn't much else. Hulk is right up there and Iron Man may be soon... df1 I actually responded to cyber's post and thought I posted it, but came back a few page views later and realized I hadn't posted it. But I will say, if you want to say a character is an icon for a period, I'll grant you that. That perhaps Spawn was an icon of the 90s or Walking Dead is an icon of today. But that really wasn't what I was talking about when I created this thread. I'm talking about the icons that last forever and everyone knows them. I would put Hulk and Iron Man up there now. I would say that they are iconic and have been for a long time now and continue to be so. The icons for brief periods or their own decades to me were more or less successful characters of their time period. If you guys want to call them icons, then okay. But it isn't the same thing I was talking about. But I'll agree that some characters can be iconic for a period. But I don't think it's on the same level I was referring to.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 13, 2010 10:25:02 GMT -5
G... I haven't had an opportunity to post, but I was going to say he's right. Captain Marvel was more popular than Superman. Do you remember how big the Bay City Rollers were in the 70's? It takes a lot for something to be iconic. People thought the Micronauts was iconic. People think Walking Dead is iconic. Once you get past Spiderman, Superman and Batman and Mickey Mouse (only God knows why!) there isn't much else. Hulk is right up there and Iron Man may be soon... df1 I actually responded to cyber's post and thought I posted it, but came back a few page views later and realized I hadn't posted it. But I will say, if you want to say a character is an icon for a period, I'll grant you that. That perhaps Spawn was an icon of the 90s or Walking Dead is an icon of today. But that really wasn't what I was talking about when I created this thread. I'm talking about the icons that last forever and everyone knows them. I would put Hulk and Iron Man up there now. I would say that they are iconic and have been for a long time now and continue to be so. The icons for brief periods or their own decades to me were more or less successful characters of their time period. If you guys want to call them icons, then okay. But it isn't the same thing I was talking about. But I'll agree that some characters can be iconic for a period. But I don't think it's on the same level I was referring to. I work with a guy who lived through Watergate yet had no idea the term even existed. I'd be willing to bet that in 10 years, someone who lived when 9/11 occurred.... they won't remember 9/11. People think what they want to think. They believe what they want to believe. Unless you constantly put Iron Man in their face and explain who he is.... he's not iconic. Society can and will let go of him. Society let go of Captain Marvel. Society would let go of Superman if he disappeared in media for 20 years. We pass certain thing from generation to generation, but I'm not so sure Iron Man will be one of those things. Spawn definitely won't. defiant1
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Post by G on Jun 13, 2010 10:42:24 GMT -5
Society would let go of Superman if he disappeared in media for 20 years. We pass certain thing from generation to generation, but I'm not so sure Iron Man will be one of those things. Spawn definitely won't. Thank you! Sure anything will disappear if we let them, but the fact of the matter is, people who have nothing to do with comics still know who Superman is. Spawn? I seriously doubt it.
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Post by G on Jun 13, 2010 10:53:20 GMT -5
I work with a guy who lived through Watergate yet had no idea the term even existed. It's funny you bring up Watergate. Here is a book I own. The college was giving away library books and most of it was stuff that didn't interest me. For some reason, I picked up the Watergate book. I've read part of it. I was only about 6 or 7 when Watergate went down, but I remember it. I remember how the hearings was messing up me being able to watch my favorite tv shows at the time. It was pissing me off that shows like Gilligan's Island was being replaced with Watergate. I don't know why, but as years went past, I never forgot Watergate.
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Post by azbatx on Jun 13, 2010 11:51:36 GMT -5
I think the turtles are more iconic than the Fantastic 4. Spawn is a good choice. Trying to compare anyone to Superman is wrong. EVERYONE knows Superman.
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Post by G on Jun 13, 2010 12:07:51 GMT -5
Trying to compare anyone to Superman is wrong. EVERYONE knows Superman. You just proved my point.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 13, 2010 12:11:22 GMT -5
Society would let go of Superman if he disappeared in media for 20 years. We pass certain thing from generation to generation, but I'm not so sure Iron Man will be one of those things. Spawn definitely won't. Thank you! Sure anything will disappear if we let them, but the fact of the matter is, people who have nothing to do with comics still know who Superman is. Spawn? I seriously doubt it. Spawn had a movie and cartoon. What does the term "Dancing Baby" mean to you if anything? Was it iconic? The simple fact is that people get over things. Look back in history. George Washington ... iconic. Button Gwinnett... not so much. df1
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