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Post by G on May 17, 2011 12:26:55 GMT -5
Now Chris Warner is supposed to be saying that the line isn't canceled it's now on hiatus. It needs to be cancelled because from what I'm seeing no one cares about it.
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Post by defiant1 on May 17, 2011 20:21:17 GMT -5
Now Chris Warner is supposed to be saying that the line isn't canceled it's now on hiatus. It needs to be cancelled because from what I'm seeing no one cares about it. I'd say it's still cancelled. They aren't going to advertise it's over and kill sales on the final issues. They want to sell the TPB's. Someone posted that the Solar TPB had only about a thousand ordered. That isn't enough support to help sagging sales on the individual issues. I may buy one or two if I'm not too lazy to look for it. df1
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Post by G on May 18, 2011 7:31:09 GMT -5
It needs to be cancelled because from what I'm seeing no one cares about it. I'd say it's still cancelled. They aren't going to advertise it's over and kill sales on the final issues. They want to sell the TPB's. Someone posted that the Solar TPB had only about a thousand ordered. That isn't enough support to help sagging sales on the individual issues. I may buy one or two if I'm not too lazy to look for it. df1 Maybe it got better, I don't know. But it didn't look like anything that was TPB worthy. And if it was, maybe that was part of the problem. Making story arcs that could later come out in TPB form instead of making good comics that stood on their own. I don't see the mentality in being a complete flop as a comic (and it is) and then just trying to hang on enough to put out a couple of TPB's. If everyone was going around and saying "these Dark Horse Valiant comics are really awesome!" then maybe you can see a desire to go pickup the TPB's when they come out. But most time I see a review or people chatting about them, it seems disappointment reigns supreme. So if the comic is disappointing, what's going to make the TPB worth having? Owning a piece of history? I think Valiant has had too much of a grip on the mindset of comic fans for too long and the recapture of glory years just isn't in the cards. Especially with Dark Horse. As long as we keep believing Valiant will rise again, we'll keep being disappointed with what they put out.
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Post by cyberstrike on May 18, 2011 17:57:02 GMT -5
I'd say it's still cancelled. They aren't going to advertise it's over and kill sales on the final issues. They want to sell the TPB's. Someone posted that the Solar TPB had only about a thousand ordered. That isn't enough support to help sagging sales on the individual issues. I may buy one or two if I'm not too lazy to look for it. df1 Maybe it got better, I don't know. But it didn't look like anything that was TPB worthy. And if it was, maybe that was part of the problem. Making story arcs that could later come out in TPB form instead of making good comics that stood on their own. I don't see the mentality in being a complete flop as a comic (and it is) and then just trying to hang on enough to put out a couple of TPB's. If everyone was going around and saying "these Dark Horse Valiant comics are really awesome!" then maybe you can see a desire to go pickup the TPB's when they come out. But most time I see a review or people chatting about them, it seems disappointment reigns supreme. So if the comic is disappointing, what's going to make the TPB worth having? Owning a piece of history? I think Valiant has had too much of a grip on the mindset of comic fans for too long and the recapture of glory years just isn't in the cards. Especially with Dark Horse. As long as we keep believing Valiant will rise again, we'll keep being disappointed with what they put out. There are series that have been kept alive by TPBs in fact in some cases books have been canceled not because of poor sales in single issues but due to poor TPB sales. The Peter David written Supergirl series was canceled because DC couldn't get enough sales on TPB collecting #76-80 even though the sales of the monthly comic had actually risen! Peter David's The Fallen Angel was canceled due to people trade waiting for it and not buying the monthly series. I've read that Image Comics' The Age of Bronze TPBs out sell the monthly comic by almost 2-to-1, in fact the creator of the book said something to effect that if he could he would do the the series as a series of TPBs but he can't because it would take him at least 6 months to it and he has bills to pay.
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Post by defiant1 on May 18, 2011 19:23:45 GMT -5
I'd say it's still cancelled. They aren't going to advertise it's over and kill sales on the final issues. They want to sell the TPB's. Someone posted that the Solar TPB had only about a thousand ordered. That isn't enough support to help sagging sales on the individual issues. I may buy one or two if I'm not too lazy to look for it. df1 Maybe it got better, I don't know. But it didn't look like anything that was TPB worthy. And if it was, maybe that was part of the problem. Making story arcs that could later come out in TPB form instead of making good comics that stood on their own. I don't see the mentality in being a complete flop as a comic (and it is) and then just trying to hang on enough to put out a couple of TPB's. If everyone was going around and saying "these Dark Horse Valiant comics are really awesome!" then maybe you can see a desire to go pickup the TPB's when they come out. But most time I see a review or people chatting about them, it seems disappointment reigns supreme. So if the comic is disappointing, what's going to make the TPB worth having? Owning a piece of history? I think Valiant has had too much of a grip on the mindset of comic fans for too long and the recapture of glory years just isn't in the cards. Especially with Dark Horse. As long as we keep believing Valiant will rise again, we'll keep being disappointed with what they put out. When I saw how bad the comic art was, I knew the individual books were not something I wanted in my collection. I was still interested in supporting Jim and the stories. I've only read the one FCBD story and I think Solar #1. It was a horrible tedious experience because of the horrible and very distracting art. If they are able to complete a story that will fit into TPB form and publish something at that low of a print run as a collected "last publication" I don't mind one or two copies. If they are going to continue, I'm not interested in rewarding them with my dollars. I can't stand crappy art. BTW.... t.co/JBA88Dsdf1
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Post by G on May 18, 2011 19:49:07 GMT -5
Maybe it got better, I don't know. But it didn't look like anything that was TPB worthy. And if it was, maybe that was part of the problem. Making story arcs that could later come out in TPB form instead of making good comics that stood on their own. I don't see the mentality in being a complete flop as a comic (and it is) and then just trying to hang on enough to put out a couple of TPB's. If everyone was going around and saying "these Dark Horse Valiant comics are really awesome!" then maybe you can see a desire to go pickup the TPB's when they come out. But most time I see a review or people chatting about them, it seems disappointment reigns supreme. So if the comic is disappointing, what's going to make the TPB worth having? Owning a piece of history? I think Valiant has had too much of a grip on the mindset of comic fans for too long and the recapture of glory years just isn't in the cards. Especially with Dark Horse. As long as we keep believing Valiant will rise again, we'll keep being disappointed with what they put out. There are series that have been kept alive by TPBs in fact in some cases books have been canceled not because of poor sales in single issues but due to poor TPB sales. The Peter David written Supergirl series was canceled because DC couldn't get enough sales on TPB collecting #76-80 even though the sales of the monthly comic had actually risen! Peter David's The Fallen Angel was canceled due to people trade waiting for it and not buying the monthly series. I've read that Image Comics' The Age of Bronze TPBs out sell the monthly comic by almost 2-to-1, in fact the creator of the book said something to effect that if he could he would do the the series as a series of TPBs but he can't because it would take him at least 6 months to it and he has bills to pay. Well perhaps that is the mentality with comics I just don't understand. Over the years comics started out standing on their own. Over time, special collections or story arcs became TPBs or Graphic Novels. That was fine because some comics were special and deserved the higher formats. Unfortunately, what used to be special started becoming the norm for any 4-12 issue arc that could be packaged into a TPB. The requirement shifted from "this is a great run of comics" to "this is a packaged collected story". Over time comic readers stopped collecting comics and just waited for the regular comics to finish and then get the TPB. This is apparently hurting comic sales. So now we are at the point where TPBs come out in spite of comic sales and the comic are just a formality. Even if a collection of comics wasn't successful or well received in the first place, the publishers want to put out TPBs anyway. Even if people say the comics themselves suck. The publishers are undeterred. Now instead of TPB's being like a "greatest hits" package of truly remarkable or memorable sequences of comics, it's become just as standard as standard as regular comic books and now just as with comics its getting to be that more TPBs are sucking because the only requirement wasn't that it be special or really good, but instead....just be a run of comics that we can slap one title on the story. If the end desire is to get to TPB's then I'd almost prefer that they ONLY be released in the TPB versions and the stand alone comics never exist at all. Certainly comics that gain fan approval and appeal and have proven to be standouts could also be released as TPBs. But it doesn't mean that comics should be released only with the intent to get us to the TPBs regardless of sales figures or survey-says. I really think TPBs have contributed to the death of continuity and delivered a much narrower scope in what is possible overall in the total imagination that can be achieved in comics. In this aspect, I think the comics themselves have changed and stopped being comics but more or less just vehicles to get TPBs released. TPBs have totally changed the landscape of the comics themselves. I personally think the focus is on the wrong side of this equation. And in reality, the outcome becomes weaker on both sides. Sure, there are plenty of great TPBs out there. But it sure seems to be harder to find really good comics that don't have their storylines limited to follow a prepackaged format of value menu meals.
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Post by cyberstrike on May 19, 2011 19:38:43 GMT -5
I recall once reading from a mod on another message board a long time ago saying that monthly comics are basically previews for trade paper backs and hardcovers.
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Post by defiant1 on May 19, 2011 20:11:49 GMT -5
I recall once reading from a mod on another message board a long time ago saying that monthly comics are basically previews for trade paper backs and hardcovers. It has evolved into that, but comics are in jeopardy because of it. df1
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Post by G on May 21, 2011 9:33:21 GMT -5
I recall once reading from a mod on another message board a long time ago saying that monthly comics are basically previews for trade paper backs and hardcovers. It has evolved into that, but comics are in jeopardy because of it. df1 Comics have become the sacrificial lamb for the sake of TPB's.
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Post by G on May 21, 2011 10:02:19 GMT -5
Pretty awesome post there by Mr. Shooter. Inking seems like it has also taken a hit in quality over the years. It's been replaced by subpar coloring. When I read Shooters blog it seems like he knows exactly what is needed but his ways are seem as some dark caveman days of the past and he is not listened to or in position to make his desires for comics followed. It's a shame. We need about 7 or 8 people like Shooter heading comic company (in terms of quality control) and we could get this ship righted. I'll bet you that if some of these things that are missing now were worked on, sales would rise. But then again, what do I know?
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