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Post by G on Sept 26, 2012 23:20:18 GMT -5
I'd almost have to picture a time when comics were nearly dead and all the big boys of the day could no longer generate sales. It would be so bad, that they decided to give up comics and get a real job. The only ones left now were the bonafide lovers of the craft of making comics and the ones who had the real boyhood dream to make comics and just looking for someone to give them a chance to draw a real comic so they could fulfill a lifelong dream. Desperate types. Looking for that break and easily molded just for the chance. Perfect opportunity for a standup type of leader to hire talent and crack the whip and lay down the law and run a tight ship. Habitual late deadline guys need not apply. Back to oldschool when guys spents all nighters and weekends finishing pages at all costs.
I really think it would take a return to oldschool. The talent and leaders from today will not make the next great group of comics in my opinion. It will be a real group of ragtag diehards who wanted to put their ego aside to be apart of something great.
We may be another 10 - 15 years away from something like this actually happening. But then again, I almost feel like the guys from today who have ruled and ruined the last 20 years will have to fall out of the scene. I picture a much more desperate landscape. And from there, maybe something great can finally happen again.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 27, 2012 4:47:27 GMT -5
As the publishing industry continues to suffer and new technologies captivate the imaginations of kids, I just don't think comics have a chance of surviving in the format we've collected. 10 years ago were were building a lot of equipment for the printing industry as the printers tried to operate cheaper and more cost efficiently. The business was a passing phase. I haven't seen anymore upgrades for them. The old school knowledge is dying off. The irreverent attitude of the newer talent, the indifferent attitude of publishers, and the ignorance of the consumer simply means there won't anyone to replace the type of comics we grew up reading. The value of your average comic deflates because there is no one looking for them after their first month in the stores. That's the main reason I quit buying comics. The hobby is a dying novelty for old men.
df1
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Post by G on Sept 27, 2012 11:38:04 GMT -5
As the publishing industry continues to suffer and new technologies captivate the imaginations of kids, I just don't think comics have a chance of surviving in the format we've collected. 10 years ago were were building a lot of equipment for the printing industry as the printers tried to operate cheaper and more cost efficiently. The business was a passing phase. I haven't seen anymore upgrades for them. The old school knowledge is dying off. The irreverent attitude of the newer talent, the indifferent attitude of publishers, and the ignorance of the consumer simply means there won't anyone to replace the type of comics we grew up reading. The value of your average comic deflates because there is no one looking for them after their first month in the stores. That's the main reason I quit buying comics. The hobby is a dying novelty for old men.
[/size] df1[/quote] I certainly agree with everything you said. Especially the bolded part. Even moreso with the talk about irreverent attitude of newer talent, indifferent attitude of publishers and the ignorance of the consumer. I agree we have a perfect storm of failure here that will doom the industry as we know it. However, I still believe there will always be some form of comics and not just in the digital format. Maybe 10-15 years we only see 10-15% of the amount of PRINTED comics. But I still believe there are a few kids out there that will want to have their stuff printed as a comic book. Whether a leader goes on to lead and produce a great product probably never happens. The era we reminisce about is as forgotten as the Golden Age was to our generation. I still feel like the generation of today almost has to be wiped out before we see anyone really take a stab at trying to do something better than the highly failed and flawed status quo.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 27, 2012 20:08:37 GMT -5
As the publishing industry continues to suffer and new technologies captivate the imaginations of kids, I just don't think comics have a chance of surviving in the format we've collected. 10 years ago were were building a lot of equipment for the printing industry as the printers tried to operate cheaper and more cost efficiently. The business was a passing phase. I haven't seen anymore upgrades for them. The old school knowledge is dying off. The irreverent attitude of the newer talent, the indifferent attitude of publishers, and the ignorance of the consumer simply means there won't anyone to replace the type of comics we grew up reading. The value of your average comic deflates because there is no one looking for them after their first month in the stores. That's the main reason I quit buying comics. The hobby is a dying novelty for old men.
[/size] df1[/quote] I certainly agree with everything you said. Especially the bolded part. Even moreso with the talk about irreverent attitude of newer talent, indifferent attitude of publishers and the ignorance of the consumer. I agree we have a perfect storm of failure here that will doom the industry as we know it. However, I still believe there will always be some form of comics and not just in the digital format. Maybe 10-15 years we only see 10-15% of the amount of PRINTED comics. But I still believe there are a few kids out there that will want to have their stuff printed as a comic book. Whether a leader goes on to lead and produce a great product probably never happens. The era we reminisce about is as forgotten as the Golden Age was to our generation. I still feel like the generation of today almost has to be wiped out before we see anyone really take a stab at trying to do something better than the highly failed and flawed status quo. [/quote] Comics will never go away, but people publishing their work will choose different formats based upon the misconception that comics won't sell in the normal format. Also, the current distribution system won't be around to support published comics as we know them. All in all, I want a higher standard, not just a kid in his basement trying to publish his poor quality crap. df1
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Post by G on Sept 27, 2012 21:18:57 GMT -5
All in all, I want a higher standard, not just a kid in his basement trying to publish his poor quality crap. df1 Ah....No doubt. I'm pretty sure we want the same thing. It seems like we already have the kid in his basement types making comics today. I think the one thing comics lacks today is a true leader. A leader could mold these basement kids into something better. As it is today, we have the inmates running the asylum. Nothing works because of it.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 27, 2012 22:59:35 GMT -5
All in all, I want a higher standard, not just a kid in his basement trying to publish his poor quality crap. df1 Ah....No doubt. I'm pretty sure we want the same thing. It seems like we already have the kid in his basement types making comics today. I think the one thing comics lacks today is a true leader. A leader could mold these basement kids into something better. As it is today, we have the inmates running the asylum. Nothing works because of it. I'm not sure I want any new comics anymore, even if they are well done. Comics symbolized simpler times and ideals that went by the wayside. df1
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Post by G on Sept 28, 2012 1:44:56 GMT -5
Ah....No doubt. I'm pretty sure we want the same thing. It seems like we already have the kid in his basement types making comics today. I think the one thing comics lacks today is a true leader. A leader could mold these basement kids into something better. As it is today, we have the inmates running the asylum. Nothing works because of it. I'm not sure I want any new comics anymore, even if they are well done. Comics symbolized simpler times and ideals that went by the wayside. df1 I'm not quite to that point but I can relate to that. I think I have the desire to see something really good, I'm just pessimistic that it'll ever happen. I'm no longer willing to just get the same old stuff. I have a belief that with the technology and the available knowledge of today, it would be possible to make the best comics ever created right now. What's maddening to me is we aren't even coming close to tapping into the potential of comics anymore and it's a frustrating experience to realize that. So now I have apathy and I don't care like I want to. And with my current economic situation that feeling just gets worse. I still have a desire to see someone .make good comics again. I just have a doubt anyone will actually do it.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 28, 2012 4:52:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure I want any new comics anymore, even if they are well done. Comics symbolized simpler times and ideals that went by the wayside. df1 I'm not quite to that point but I can relate to that. I think I have the desire to see something really good, I'm just pessimistic that it'll ever happen. I'm no longer willing to just get the same old stuff. I have a belief that with the technology and the available knowledge of today, it would be possible to make the best comics ever created right now. What's maddening to me is we aren't even coming close to tapping into the potential of comics anymore and it's a frustrating experience to realize that. So now I have apathy and I don't care like I want to. And with my current economic situation that feeling just gets worse. I still have a desire to see someone .make good comics again. I just have a doubt anyone will actually do it. I went through that phase. When my hopes were the greatest, I was always let down. Certain circumstances have to align for the potential to even exist. When the opportunities arose, the publishers and creators were too short-sighted to seize it. I once asked my dad why he watched western movies or anything with a cowboy. He said "It's no different than you and your comics." He had grown up with western movies and cowboy heroes. They stayed with him the rest of his life. I think I'll always pause and take a look at comics or a movie poster featuring comics. I think I'm finally old enough to see my hobby as a clinging to the things in my past that I don't want to let go. df1
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Post by G on Sept 28, 2012 13:28:32 GMT -5
I'm not quite to that point but I can relate to that. I think I have the desire to see something really good, I'm just pessimistic that it'll ever happen. I'm no longer willing to just get the same old stuff. I have a belief that with the technology and the available knowledge of today, it would be possible to make the best comics ever created right now. What's maddening to me is we aren't even coming close to tapping into the potential of comics anymore and it's a frustrating experience to realize that. So now I have apathy and I don't care like I want to. And with my current economic situation that feeling just gets worse. I still have a desire to see someone .make good comics again. I just have a doubt anyone will actually do it. I went through that phase. When my hopes were the greatest, I was always let down. Certain circumstances have to align for the potential to even exist. When the opportunities arose, the publishers and creators were too short-sighted to seize it. I once asked my dad why he watched western movies or anything with a cowboy. He said "It's no different than you and your comics." He had grown up with western movies and cowboy heroes. They stayed with him the rest of his life. I think I'll always pause and take a look at comics or a movie poster featuring comics. I think I'm finally old enough to see my hobby as a clinging to the things in my past that I don't want to let go. df1 I can always appreciate your side as never being wrong because there is a lot of truth to what you say and I appreciate that. I guess I also understand that holding onto to comics is holding onto a simpler time and also holding onto a childhood good time. I guess I see all of that. But I tend to have a problem with the "clinging to the things in my past" as being something bad. Your dad was still watching Westerns well after no one else liked them anymore. He still had a love for them. I still hold onto other things from my past that still bring me enjoyment today....watching sports, playing bass, drawing....etc. I'd hate to think who I would be if I felt I was just holding onto things from my childhood by still living through these things. They pretty much helped shape me into me. If I gave up all that and tried to shape myself into someone new, I would be going to work, coming home, paying bills, mowing my yard and doing the laundry and fixing meals. Repeating on a daily basis and looking for something new to entertain myself. I think a lot of people do things as an adult that they originally loved as a child or teenager. Now the optimism on whether comics will or won't regain the glory of my past is a much more pessimistic view for me. But yet, even when I know the odds are stacked against it, I can still envision ways things can turn around. Even if it is only in my fantasies or dreams. I can still see ways for things to be better. What's frustrating is realizing that I and people who share some of my thoughts (like you) seem to be in the minority with the way we think and even though the numbers say that comics are dealing with only 5% - 10% of the readership of only 20 years ago, a colossal failure by any other business aspect, those 5-10% will tell you there way is right while the 90-95% who left (and who may have the potential to come back if they seen things change) are largely ignored and even worse, seen as some angry bitter souls who have lost touch with how comics REALLY SHOULD BE even though the levels of success achieved during our day FAR EXCEEDS any metric they could throw at us today. It's downright frustrating and even embarrassing that the world of comics has made rock stars out of failures. I can't think of another industry where failures are so glamorized. So, I guess I still cling to the hope that one day industry will WISE UP and get with it and actively pursue the 90-95% who left. Now certainly, a great portion of those people have truly outgrown and moved on from comics and have no desire whatsoever to ever regain their love they once had for comics. But I feel I'd say a full 1/3rd to 1/2 of the people who left are still in some way reachable. But come on. They have to be like us and just got fed up with the way things turned out and gave up. I guess I'm stuck somewhere in limbo. In terms of where I want to be with comics. If things don't change with the industry, I'll try to remain a collector. I still find tremendous joy in purchasing rare important comics. Especially in great condition. And later flipping it for profit. Or in my case, to keep myself alive. Where would I be if I didn't just sell some of my comics? I probably couldn't type this message because my electricity would be off. I'll still leave the door slightly ajar in the hopes that comics change and get better but I highly doubt they ever will especially with these guys at the top and the so-called creative stars we have from today and the past 20 years largely controlling what we see. I may walk away and never come back. But I guess I have a hard time seeing being into comics at anytime between now and my death as a mistake. Like your dad and the Westerns, he still enjoyed them when everyone else didn't.
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Post by defiant1 on Sept 28, 2012 14:24:51 GMT -5
I went through that phase. When my hopes were the greatest, I was always let down. Certain circumstances have to align for the potential to even exist. When the opportunities arose, the publishers and creators were too short-sighted to seize it. I once asked my dad why he watched western movies or anything with a cowboy. He said "It's no different than you and your comics." He had grown up with western movies and cowboy heroes. They stayed with him the rest of his life. I think I'll always pause and take a look at comics or a movie poster featuring comics. I think I'm finally old enough to see my hobby as a clinging to the things in my past that I don't want to let go. df1 I can always appreciate your side as never being wrong because there is a lot of truth to what you say and I appreciate that. I guess I also understand that holding onto to comics is holding onto a simpler time and also holding onto a childhood good time. I guess I see all of that. But I tend to have a problem with the "clinging to the things in my past" as being something bad. Your dad was still watching Westerns well after no one else liked them anymore. He still had a love for them. I still hold onto other things from my past that still bring me enjoyment today....watching sports, playing bass, drawing....etc. I'd hate to think who I would be if I felt I was just holding onto things from my childhood by still living through these things. They pretty much helped shape me into me. If I gave up all that and tried to shape myself into someone new, I would be going to work, coming home, paying bills, mowing my yard and doing the laundry and fixing meals. Repeating on a daily basis and looking for something new to entertain myself. I think a lot of people do things as an adult that they originally loved as a child or teenager. Now the optimism on whether comics will or won't regain the glory of my past is a much more pessimistic view for me. But yet, even when I know the odds are stacked against it, I can still envision ways things can turn around. Even if it is only in my fantasies or dreams. I can still see ways for things to be better. What's frustrating is realizing that I and people who share some of my thoughts (like you) seem to be in the minority with the way we think and even though the numbers say that comics are dealing with only 5% - 10% of the readership of only 20 years ago, a colossal failure by any other business aspect, those 5-10% will tell you there way is right while the 90-95% who left (and who may have the potential to come back if they seen things change) are largely ignored and even worse, seen as some angry bitter souls who have lost touch with how comics REALLY SHOULD BE even though the levels of success achieved during our day FAR EXCEEDS any metric they could throw at us today. It's downright frustrating and even embarrassing that the world of comics has made rock stars out of failures. I can't think of another industry where failures are so glamorized. So, I guess I still cling to the hope that one day industry will WISE UP and get with it and actively pursue the 90-95% who left. Now certainly, a great portion of those people have truly outgrown and moved on from comics and have no desire whatsoever to ever regain their love they once had for comics. But I feel I'd say a full 1/3rd to 1/2 of the people who left are still in some way reachable. But come on. They have to be like us and just got fed up with the way things turned out and gave up. I guess I'm stuck somewhere in limbo. In terms of where I want to be with comics. If things don't change with the industry, I'll try to remain a collector. I still find tremendous joy in purchasing rare important comics. Especially in great condition. And later flipping it for profit. Or in my case, to keep myself alive. Where would I be if I didn't just sell some of my comics? I probably couldn't type this message because my electricity would be off. I'll still leave the door slightly ajar in the hopes that comics change and get better but I highly doubt they ever will especially with these guys at the top and the so-called creative stars we have from today and the past 20 years largely controlling what we see. I may walk away and never come back. But I guess I have a hard time seeing being into comics at anytime between now and my death as a mistake. Like your dad and the Westerns, he still enjoyed them when everyone else didn't. No, not a mistake. I have evolved. My life has changed and holding onto the past seems to hold me back from different paths I have chosen. In this case, I have boxes upon boxes of comics I really have no desire to read again. The consume a lot of space. They are heavy to move and manage. They haven't actively contributed to my life in 25 years. Do I regret ever buying comics? No. I think I can say I do regret buying new comics past about 1999 when I quit. I regret buying about 70% of the comics I bought after 1996. I regret buying about 30% of the things I bought between 1991 and 1996. The percentage of comics that I appreciate buying has dropped off dramatically. I did just buy a couple of comic related items. I had been looking for something specific on and off for about a year and a half. I wasn't able to find any leads on them at all. Last night I clicked on an person's list of eBay auctions and the exact items I wanted were right there for sale at a 50% discount and a BIN listing. They were not expensive items, but they were specific items I wanted. I don't have an eBay account, so the process to get them involved the help of a friend. I kinda feel like a higher authority pointed me to them. I don't always make the easiest choices in life when I believe what is right, so this seems to be a thanks from above. df1
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