Terms that shouldn't be allowed on Ebay

"I'm not a professional grader"

Well, to put it mildly....who is???

I mean really, I'm waiting for CGC and PGX workers themselves to suddenly start selling unslabbed books and going....

"I AM a Professional Grader!!!"

But wouldn't that be unethical? Really can we use words like that in any sense and not feel dismayed one way or another?

I'd much rather read someone say "I've got over 30 years of buying and selling comics and check my feedback for people vouching my grading standards" than to read someone say "I'm not a professional grader" and then give it a grade.

You done put it out there that I can't trust you and then you say things like "Well in my personal opinion, it grades about a VF/NM......But I'm not a Professional Grader!"

I try and let your quality of photos and description as well as feedback received do all the speaking for you. If you've got a spotty track record, it'll show up in one of these places. Because I can't tell you how many times I've seen the "I'm not a professional grader" qualifier put out there and in the same ad a grade of VF be given to a book that can easily be seen as a VG- to VG+ at best by the given photo.

To me "I'm not a professional grader" means you've more than clarified that I shouldn't trust a damn thing you say about the grade.

And further makes me want to reply "No shit Sherlock!" as a question to the seller.

In any event, these kind of tool auctions are the kind I try and stay away from.

I'm sure there are others you know about. Well, go ahead and list em if you go em!

You've got it completely wrong. This has nothing to do with sellers trying to pass off crap. This is put to shut up the assholes.

Awhile back I had a web page selling Armorines (Vol.2) #4. The books were brand new like they came out of the the distributor's box. Hell will freeze over before I nitpick a comic like CGC collectors do. I'm not going to waste that kind of time or handle every issue. I had several copies so I just posted "VF or better". I had them priced above the going NM price. It was priced $20 or $25. Whatever. I didn't care if I sold them or not.
Eventually someone saw the web page and excitingly ordered one. I got the money. I sent them the comic. I got a complaint. Their complaint was that it looked really good, but it did have some extremely minor imperfections, "Could I look through my stock and find one in better condition". I reminded them that my page did not guarantee above VF and that the book was sold as advertised. I told them that if they wanted a better condition comics, they'd have to buy another one. I told them I would not grade the book above VF and sell it to them at raw prices. I told them that if I graded the books above VF, I would just send them in to the CGC. I did send my remainders in. The unsold ones returned two 9.4's and three 9.6's. I think CGC lowballed me because I submitted so many at once. Regardless, they were all NM comics.

My point is that buyers want NM books for Fine prices. They harass sellers until they get a refund on shipping or something to make the seller bend to their whim. A seller should have a right to say "This book is like new, I'm not going to invest 20 minutes of handling into the grading of this book." I chose to write "VF or better". That is the condition of books when they come from the distributor. Retailers don't grade new comics out of the box, they should not have to invest 20 minutes to grade $5 comic, They should be able to sell comics "as-is" without even providing a grade. Any grade you get should be deemed a favor.

There was also a guy in California that wanted a NM Vintage Magnus #4 for cover price, and he wanted it shipped in a mailer envelope by media mail. When I saw how he wanted it shipped, I refused to sell him the comic. It's too easy for them to damage the comic in transit and hardly worth it for $1 profit. Essentially, he wanted something he could send to the CGC for the lowest possible price. I'm not a CGC prescreen grader. Screw anyone who thinks I will do it. If I'm going to prescreen a NM comic... I'll also send it to the CGC myself.

df1

Obviously the term "I'm not a professional grader" is put up so in case you disagree with what they graded it they can point at it and say "I told you I'm not a professional grader". I understand that is why they say it. The problem I have with it is it is used too loosely.

I was looking at a JLA I believe it was a #21 last night. I think this is where the JSA makes its first reappearance into the Silver Age and is part of the beginning of the 1st group of books indicating their is alternate earths and what eventually led up to Crisis decades later. This was a bonafide key and guided for $850 in NM- 9.2

At 1st glance it looked like a solid clean copy with minor wear. But upon inspection of the photos it was clearly a bit on the warn side and looked like it had been read many times. There wasn't any real bad creasing, but plenty of stress marks and small bends and folds as well as a couple of tiny rips along the edge. My original thoughts were it was clean enough to be somewhere in the VG to VG+ range and the price at the time was still reasonable. With an hour left to go I it was sitting around $26 and I was considering bidding on it. VG price on the book was $80 and FN was $160. I thought realistically it was a $80 - $120 book. I considered whether or not to bid in the $40 - $50 range and not go higher to see if I could snag it. While I was looking, it suddenly jumped up to $41. I was reconsidering my options.

This advertisement had a lot to read and many pictures to look at. I seen what looked like a staining of foxing along the edge of the back cover. Then I read....

I have been a collector for over 30 years. In my opinion this book grades in the FN+ to VF range. Followed with, but I am not a professional grader. Okay, so he over graded. Not a first. Usually when I see a book on ebay, I'll go with the lowest stated value and knock it down a half a grade. So if FN+ was the lowest stated value, I would have been reasonably happy if I got a FN. I kept reading....then this caught my eye and I wondered how I didn't see it before.

Middle 4 pages are detached from the book but I have included them here in their exact order. WTF??

He was grading this obviously VGish book to begin with a FN+/VF and yet still I was considering it because the price was still respectable for a VG range. And then I notice 4 pages detached. The accumulated amount of defects now had this book somewhere in the GD+ range and yet he clearly and boldly put In my opinion this is somewhere in the FN+/VF range. Yes, he had even bolded those words. But it was followed immediately with "Im not a professional grader, just a 30 year collector".

The detached pages quote was the straw that broke my back. He had good feedback but I noticed he had no other comics for sale. He looked like he was a flea market seller and sold anything he thought he could sell on ebay. Granted, somehow he had a major Silver Age mid grade DC Key on his site. But I almost bit on it until way down at the bottom it talked about detached pages.

Luckily I'll give him honesty in advertising and mentioning the major flaws and posting good pictures. I'll give him that. But he had no right to call the book FN+/VF in his wildest dreams.

If I had actually purchased the book, I would have been expecting a VG to VG+. Thats what I seen it as and that was my consideration on purchasing it. And I almost bid on it until I seen detached pages. I feel lucky I seen it.

Now Im not one to complain when I get a bad comic, but paying more than $10 - $20 for a comic on ebay, I'm expecting I'm moving up a level. If I would have not seen detached pages in the listing and got a book I was hoping would be VG - VG+ and then opened it up to see detached pages, I would have been really pissed and maybe even wrote to him expecting either a refund or a price break.

I'm sure the 1st thing out of his mouth would have been.

I told you I'm not a professional grader.

Sure its on me. And Im glad it was there to see and read for myself. It would have been on me. But if he didn't give me enough clues and I bought it, I would have felt ripped and I'm sure that would have been the 1st defense.

My point is, if you're going to use a claim like that. Be in the ballpark. Don't just state a high grade for selling value purposes and follow it with Im not a professional grader disclaimer when its clearly nowhere near what you are stating. If you're going to use that statement. All I'm asking is at least be in the ballpark.

By the way, the book eventually closed at $41 which was around the GD value.

Anytime you go online to do your dealings for comic books you go in knowing you're taking risks unless you're buying a CGC book and even then you're hoping you don't wind up with a cracked case or something like that. You know going into it that you got to keep your eyes open for every clue about what you're getting which should mean you're looking hard at every available picture and you're looking for any admission from the seller who is certainly trying to say more positive to sell it for top dollar than to give you a negative and turn you off from it. That being said, you're still looking for any words they'll admit to. Furthermore you're looking at feedback and other items that are currently on sale or sold recently. You've got to look at it all. Sure. If someone just posts a title with a statement and a grade, I'm not buying. Even when I buy with everything available to me, I'm unsure what I'll get until I actually receive it.

The problem is, unless you live around some mecca for comic books, you don't have too many avenues to get books you want to add to your collection. I know locally what to expect and 95% of the books available here, I'm not wanting to get and the other 5% is probably priced out of my range. If you want to keep adding, sometimes you gotta look elsewhere and maybe even take a few chances. I've sold books online and I can relate to how hard it is to describe a book accurately and hope the buyer doesn't complain once they get it.

The gripe I'm saying here is that I'd rather see someone say like this.....

I'm not a professional grader so please look closely at my scans and my description.

And I have seen people post like that. I don't mind that.

What I have a problem with is someone stating a grade and then following immediately with "but I'm not a professional grader". It's like you just canceled out what you just said previously and you have made a statement with no confidence.

I even prefer when someone says....the book is in VF condition and makes no further disclaimer. They say it with confidence. Sure, they may be off some. I'll look at the other clues to see what I can see. And even then my own eyes may not give me the truth until I actually hold the book myself. I'm just saying, when someone states a grade and says nothing else, I appreciate it more than "In my opinion the book grades a VF, but I'm not a professional grader". Then don't pretend to give it a grade in the first place. Just take scans and give a description and let others decide what they are looking at.

Don't blurt me a grade, be totally off when I see the picture which proves at 1st glance you're wrong and then state you aren't a professional grader. My gripe is don't blurt a grade if you don't know what it means.

Of course, this is a complaint that goes back as long as Ebay....but for the sake of a thread about gripes, I'm griping that when I view auctions I hate reading the term "but I'm not a professional grader".