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Post by G on Oct 18, 2010 15:28:34 GMT -5
I have to admit, I'm not much on using Twitter. I've had a hard time seeing the good side of it and typically it's far more cumbersome to find any good nuggets out of it than is worth to surf on it. But, I also have to admit, I do have a Comic Crack account and I do follow a good amount of Comic Creators looking for info. It's not something I look at every day. My average update tweet is probably once every 2-4 weeks. But occasionally, especially when things are slow elsewhere, I go there and see what's being tweeted.
I think I have a good broad selection of what I'm following. I don't follow a lot of people, at least not yet, but the selection I do, I feel is a good cross section of the comic's industry.
Having said that, I have to say that reading comic creator tweets is like a recipe for nausea. Not surprising, the creators and companies who irritate me in the comics world irritate me even more on Twitter. What's even worse is realizing creators who I typically like are irritating me on a lot on Twitter too.
There are very few creators truly worth following or capable and willing to give out good info with their tweets. Most are just blowing smoke and acting smug as hell. You would think every creation they were ever involved with was the next Amazing Spider-Man #1, most seem incapable of saying "this didn't come out the way I had hoped or planned." Or they have some kind of beef with either politics or their competition that borders on sickening.
Some creators who I used to be able to deal with quite well have gotten me to the point that their tweets make me not want to buy any of their stuff either currently or down the road. Others who I have never questioned my positive thoughts about their works have found ways to be just annoying enough on Twitter to make me want to think twice about buying any of their stuff or strongly consider slowing down or give second thoughts on a potential upcoming purchase. There is a real "holier than thou" attitude floating around with a lot of creators. And being a fan or a person of interest, these Tweets are exposing a side of their character which I would otherwise not normally see or care to look up. However, a tweet is just small enough of a point of interest, that it isn't a lot of work to see what these guys have to say and what's on their minds. The problem is, a lot of what they say is a complete turn off to them and their works.
I always thought Twitter was a way to market news and grow your fanbase. Instead it seems like Twitter has beome a rant board and the stuff they are hyping often seems run of the mill and very ordinary. In fact it seems to be a way for them to justify or explain away lesser efforts of their works than to just put it out there. If the object of creators Tweeting was to piss off their fanbase, I think they are succeeding greatly at it.
To be honest, I think a lot of creators would be better served NOT using Twitter. I give props to those who can use it in an informative and/or interesting way as well as promoting their material without pre-praising themselves on their work and just letting their work speak for itself. Unfortunately, I think in reality, more than half need to reevaluate how they go about Tweeting or should at least try and look at their tweets a bit more from the eyes of their followers. They might be surprised at how their words are perceived.
In the meantime, Id like to say if some of you know of good creators to follow and get good info from and not just a bunch of them stroking their own boners, I'd like to hear which ones you think are worth a listen. Perhaps my mix is just not a good mix. I admit I could use a lot more and I will in time add more and hopefully the info gets better. I'm just saying as is, I think I have a good representation to feel it reflects how most of it is being put out there. I'm not really expecting much different from any of the other ones. But I would be pleasantly surprised to find some I didn't have who are worth reading.
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 18, 2010 16:40:02 GMT -5
I have to admit, I'm not much on using Twitter. I've had a hard time seeing the good side of it and typically it's far more cumbersome to find any good nuggets out of it than is worth to surf on it. But, I also have to admit, I do have a Comic Crack account and I do follow a good amount of Comic Creators looking for info. It's not something I look at every day. My average update tweet is probably once every 2-4 weeks. But occasionally, especially when things are slow elsewhere, I go there and see what's being tweeted. I think I have a good broad selection of what I'm following. I don't follow a lot of people, at least not yet, but the selection I do, I feel is a good cross section of the comic's industry. Having said that, I have to say that reading comic creator tweets is like a recipe for nausea. Not surprising, the creators and companies who irritate me in the comics world irritate me even more on Twitter. What's even worse is realizing creators who I typically like are irritating me on a lot on Twitter too. There are very few creators truly worth following or capable and willing to give out good info with their tweets. Most are just blowing smoke and acting smug as hell. You would think every creation they were ever involved with was the next Amazing Spider-Man #1, most seem incapable of saying "this didn't come out the way I had hoped or planned." Or they have some kind of beef with either politics or their competition that borders on sickening. Some creators who I used to be able to deal with quite well have gotten me to the point that their tweets make me not want to buy any of their stuff either currently or down the road. Others who I have never questioned my positive thoughts about their works have found ways to be just annoying enough on Twitter to make me want to think twice about buying any of their stuff or strongly consider slowing down or give second thoughts on a potential upcoming purchase. There is a real "holier than thou" attitude floating around with a lot of creators. And being a fan or a person of interest, these Tweets are exposing a side of their character which I would otherwise not normally see or care to look up. However, a tweet is just small enough of a point of interest, that it isn't a lot of work to see what these guys have to say and what's on their minds. The problem is, a lot of what they say is a complete turn off to them and their works. I always thought Twitter was a way to market news and grow your fanbase. Instead it seems like Twitter has beome a rant board and the stuff they are hyping often seems run of the mill and very ordinary. In fact it seems to be a way for them to justify or explain away lesser efforts of their works than to just put it out there. If the object of creators Tweeting was to piss off their fanbase, I think they are succeeding greatly at it. To be honest, I think a lot of creators would be better served NOT using Twitter. I give props to those who can use it in an informative and/or interesting way as well as promoting their material without pre-praising themselves on their work and just letting their work speak for itself. Unfortunately, I think in reality, more than half need to reevaluate how they go about Tweeting or should at least try and look at their tweets a bit more from the eyes of their followers. They might be surprised at how their words are perceived. In the meantime, Id like to say if some of you know of good creators to follow and get good info from and not just a bunch of them stroking their own boners, I'd like to hear which ones you think are worth a listen. Perhaps my mix is just not a good mix. I admit I could use a lot more and I will in time add more and hopefully the info gets better. I'm just saying as is, I think I have a good representation to feel it reflects how most of it is being put out there. I'm not really expecting much different from any of the other ones. But I would be pleasantly surprised to find some I didn't have who are worth reading. I can assure you it doesn't get any better when you run a tribute site to their work and then receive emails from certain ones. Some quite literally assume you worship their feces. The main thing to accept is that they are people. Nothing more, nothing less. They got off their ass and did something. It's nothing more than that and nothing less. A shitty human being can be a stunning artist. Some of the things that turn you off about their personality was a critical element of what it took to get them to where they are. Most are freelance. They have to do the hard sell on their work to convince all those people who are sitting on the fence and wouldn't give them a chance otherwise. Most artists are freelancers. They float work to keep paychecks rolling in for the future. They disregard promises and act like keeping one's word is just an option if it's convenient. I now think of them as I do construction workers. They know once a job is complete, they better have something else lined up or there is no future paycheck. Sometimes all that chatter is for the purpose of getting that next job lined up. Sometimes they forget people are not stupid and can see through the bullshit. df1 |
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Post by G on Oct 18, 2010 17:39:20 GMT -5
I understand all of that and I respect that part of it. Having watched BigW become an artist and work years and years at it, I seen him sell himself and his work countless times over. You understand the need to sell and the need to line up work and have something upcoming. I always said if BigW gave up art, he could be a salesman. I could respect Tweets a lot better if they talked about that or sold themselves to the audience to gather sales for the upcoming books.
Instead, I see a lot of opinions about their political preferences which is so far slanted to one side its unreal.
When it comes to their work, it's like everything is magic. I seen a Tweet today from a top tier artist that was basically "check out the cover for issue ...." when I looked at it, it was a head shot that looked like it came out of a sketch book. No challenge to the artist at all. At the bottom was numerous responses of praise for quite literally a piece of garbage. I sent a response tweet with the word "Yawn". At least that one half way tried to be a selling/sneak peak look, but it was a piece of shit. And both the artist and the fans praised it like it was a Iron Man #128 cover. Bunch of sheep.
What's more disturbing is seeing well respected artists and writers trashing other artists and writers, especially ones considered greats from past generations. Ive seen one artist who basically draws the same scribbles month after month act like every idea that wasn't his was shitty and personally attack other artists and head people at other comic companies. Obviously there was bad blood, but I just found it to be in poor taste. Even if you didn't like other artists and writers and executive heads, you didn't really see previous generations publicly slam other creators. And if they had a beef with a creator, there was a certain restraint and a respect for their work or them as a person. They would discuss their misunderstandings they had or even falling outs, but they still maintained a certain respect. They didn't try and act like other creators were just fools. They may not have liked how things went down, but they had a certain respect level they maintained.
I'm talking I just seen some out and out slams of other creators and staff that for someone as high up as this person was, was rather unbecoming of him as a person and made me feel like never buying a product from that artist again.
If the tweets filled me in more on the ordeal, struggles, insights, ideas, expectations and so on, it would be a lot more interesting to read. Instead I read one sided opinions on their viewpoints, self praise for their own below average work and see slamming of other people not in their creative cliques almost to the point of being cowardly.
I understand self promotion, but I don't understand the alienation. If you're out to alienate a few people who liked certain things or ideals, I think your tweets are causing you to lose a few sales too.
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 18, 2010 21:49:17 GMT -5
As I said though, a shitty person can still be a great artist. Standards are lower all over the industry. Pick up a copy of "How to draw the Marvel Way".... the original.... few if any are doing it. Few if any get why it worked. So much crap out there is earning paychecks and it gets praise as you've already noticed. The people who don't like it just back away and lose interest.
df1
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Post by G on Oct 18, 2010 22:12:36 GMT -5
As I said though, a shitty person can still be a great artist. Standards are lower all over the industry. Pick up a copy of "How to draw the Marvel Way".... the original.... few if any are doing it. Few if any get why it worked. So much crap out there is earning paychecks and it gets praise as you've already noticed. The people who don't like it just back away and lose interest. df1 I grew up on that book and I believe Marvel had a great formula back then. I keep wondering what comics would have been like today if that formula still existed? Hell, the comic covers that they called rejects are tons better than what is printed in most cases today. I clearly remember a Nova cover with Spiderman on a book case as Nova flew by. One of the covers was declined for not having a strong enough angle and not being dramatic enough. Let me show you what was being touted on Twitter today as a "Hey look, here is a sneak peak of our upcoming cover!"  Are you fucking kidding me??? This pictured was followed with a bunch of "That's awesome! Can't wait!!" responses. Every cover like this would have been rejected easily back in the day without hesitation. This is beginning comic stuff and they were boasting about it. I also notice those "infamous defectors" all got each others back and call each other "original" quite frequently on Twitter and spouting that the years before they were around were very narrow and limited. But they've been rehashing this shit for close to 20 years now. People like to claim speculators ruined comics in the early 1990s. I think instead comics jumped the shark when we let shit like this 5 months late at a time, be the norm. I sometimes think THEY was the worst thing to happen to comics. Hey look, one of my 15 minute sketches is the next cover!   This cover is a round head, a shoulder and a hand. With individual strands of hair! OMG!!! |
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 19, 2010 1:30:09 GMT -5
Pretty bad...
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Post by bigw1966 on Oct 20, 2010 10:42:20 GMT -5
I do not use twitter. I do not miss the fact that i do not use it since I think twitter is a complete and utter waste of time.
Most of my 500+ facebook friends art Comic Pro's. I get into conversations with most of them regularly about just about everything.
I started doing it for two reasons, I liked that creators work, and also I wanted to make connections within the Industry that as long as I didn't make an ass of myself could conceivably open doors for me.
Its actually been working out pretty good, and I have managed to become recognised and in some cases quoted by some of my favorite creators like Gene Ha, Joe Jusko, Jerry Bingham, Angel Medina Jim Krueger (who is interested in maybe doing a new Foot Soldiers story with me) and Norm Breyfogle. just to name a few.
Personally "G" I would be adding these people onto my friends list there.
screw twitter.
And I agree that cover is lazy garbage. well done, but garbage nonetheless.
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 20, 2010 12:16:25 GMT -5
Twitter is a great replacement for mailing lists. Spam is such a worldwide problem, no one should be emailing people updates with whatever their group or website is doing. Twitter is like a glorified RSS feed. As a matter of fact, I prefer to grab the RSS feed link that Twitter creates and get my updates from Twitter in my email application. I see no reason to ever go to Twitter unless you are posting relevent updates to your organization or web site. Using it to converse or tell people you farted (yes, someone was doing that!) is indeed stupid.
On the same note, Twitter, Facebook and Myspace are dangerous with regards to privacy & security. People are really naive about what other people are collecting on them. Data mining which people do is the equivalent of online stalking. Just as stalking is illegal, data mining should be illegal also.
df1
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 28, 2010 17:49:13 GMT -5
Twitter is a great replacement for mailing lists. Spam is such a worldwide problem, no one should be emailing people updates with whatever their group or website is doing. Twitter is like a glorified RSS feed. As a matter of fact, I prefer to grab the RSS feed link that Twitter creates and get my updates from Twitter in my email application. I see no reason to ever go to Twitter unless you are posting relevent updates to your organization or web site. Using it to converse or tell people you farted (yes, someone was doing that!) is indeed stupid. On the same note, Twitter, Facebook and Myspace are dangerous with regards to privacy & security. People are really naive about what other people are collecting on them. Data mining which people do is the equivalent of online stalking. Just as stalking is illegal, data mining should be illegal also. df1 BTW, I would like to clarify something I wrote above. When I said it was "stupid" to use Twitter to converse, I was in no way trying to knock a "follower" who is trying to make connections as Mike is. I think it's stupid to use Twitter in place of emails & messageboards. Twitter is best suited to dispense information (headlines/ news updates ) for a business, organization, or individual who is offering or marketing their service or wares. It is best suited to be used as a live billboard or in place of a mailing list. df1 |
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Post by bigw1966 on Oct 29, 2010 11:16:50 GMT -5
Yeah I took nothing from what you wrote. I just look at it as ok, I have 4000 followers that want to know whats up with me. Problem is I am not that exiting and would feel like I was wasting someones time writing something like -Went to 7/11 and got a six pack.- Or whatever. I like facebook, because I enjoy more in depth discussions that 140 characters makes impossible.
Now if I manage to break in and get work going, I may end up on the twitter bandwagon.
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