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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 20, 2010 12:36:07 GMT -5
If I was in the zombie apocalypse, I would get some survivors together. Create a blockade, then using noise I would herd as many as I could into my little box canyon, block them in and then spray them down with gasoline or oil or any other flammable and lght 'em up.
Rinse and repeat.
Not all fantasy writers do what you describe defient. some do for sure, but Tolkien created complete languages as well as races.
Robert Jordan went even further than that. He created an entire history that spanned thousands of years where some parts of it actually show the existance of an earlier era advanced society that used science instead of magic, even though the story takes place in a time of magic. thus showing how the world goes through cycles and often repeats events. for this I am referring to the Wheel of Time series that I am about to finish the 4th book on. He even includes allegories to ancient myths and legends such as the Templar Knights and King Arthur and Excalibur with logical recognition points for how the names of things change in degrees over time. Really well thought out.
I agree with your assessment that Walking Dead is a horror fantasy. At least on the surface. this is because the story is actually a study of the human condition that uses zombies as a motivator for the basis of the study conditions.
I feel that any horror book or film that uses a monster of some sort is horror fantasy, whereas a Story about a serial Killer like Silence of the Lambs or Zodiac for example Or Cujo are more horror and also scarier because they are representations of a relateable or possible true experience.
Don't even get me started on faulty logic in movies. I could fill pages with complaints about that.
As far as Rick goes, we do not know how long he was laid up, but a wound from a bullit will begin to knit itself after 4-5 days. So if he was blocked into that room for say a week after the shit went down, after being laid up for another week or two, then he may have been on the road to recovery as it was. I would imagine that the only reason he actually woke up out of the coma would be because his brain forced him awake after it reached its limit of time without food or water. Survival takes over.
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Post by G on Nov 20, 2010 12:55:26 GMT -5
If I was in the zombie apocalypse, I would get some survivors together. Create a blockade, then using noise I would herd as many as I could into my little box canyon, block them in and then spray them down with gasoline or oil or any other flammable and lght 'em up. Rinse and repeat. That's exactly what didn't make any sense about this story. You've only found 2 survivors so far and from the looks of it the town is deserted, dead or zombified. So being you only know of 2 survivors in the whole world at this point, why would you want to separate from them? You don't even know if anyone else is alive. I would want a team of people on my side. I would have started with them 2 and took all the weapons and cars with me and had them come with me as we looked for more people alive like us. To me it was stupid when he just left them behind. If survival is an instinct, I'd say my chances are a bit better having someone on my side as backup in case I get in trouble.
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Post by defiant1 on Nov 20, 2010 14:17:34 GMT -5
I said: You said: Not all fantasy writers do what you describe defiant. some do for sure, but Tolkien created complete languages as well as races. Robert Jordan went even further than that. I meant my statement above more in the sense that fantasy writers intentionally don't care about the realm of reality and therefore fill their writing with fluff that has no basis or bearing to anything real. Science fiction that I enjoy tries to envision a world that could or may be possible. I don't like stories that try to live outside the realm of reality. If a writer can explain the fantasy like Hudnall's Harsh Realm comic series did, I'm all for it. Tolkien indeed went to extremes to try and make his world plausible. The problem is, that he built up the action so intense that it comes across as EXTREMELY contrived when all the Dead Men of Dunharrow step in to save the day. That's another problem I have with fantasy. In fantasy, the writer just makes up a magic potion or comes up with the token silver bullet and his plot conflict is mysteriously and easily solved. It's like trying to solve a mystery novel where the actual killer wasn't even discussed until the last chapter. I see no point in it. I especially cringe now when I see Anne McCaffrey's name. I had a coworker that was all into her works. He joined a messageboard full of women that all loved McCaffrey's work. His online chatting with the "fantasy chicks" eroded his marriage because his wife didn't understand why he was more interested in the women online. His marital problems affected his attendance and his work performance. He was laid off at his job during a cutback. He left his wife in Georgia to hook up in Canada with one of the young fantasy girls that he met online. That didn't work out, because in all honesty they were all trying to live in a fantasy world. His friends convinced him to move back to Georgia. He had screwed up his life so much at that point that he was suicidal. He unfortunately did commit suicide, but not before talking someone else's life first. Even if fantasy novels were simply not my cup of tea, I now see them as entirely f'd up because this guy was your picture perfect example of a normal person. He led a modest life, he had a good job, he had a loving wife, he had a level headed well-behaved kid. His one mistake that led his whole life to a downward spiral was his interest in Anne McCafrey books. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 21, 2010 11:16:46 GMT -5
No offense to your friend, But his problems were happening long before Anne McCafreys contrived PERN novels. They just allowed an outlet from what in his mind may have been a boring marriage to someone who didn't share his intersts. Really it could have been anything. From what you wrote its easy to surmise that he may have felt lonely in his marriage and thought he was garnering more attention from the online girls than he was from her. Only to let it ruin his life.
I have known a few people like that.
Not all fantasy is orcs and Wizards though. Some exist in a world that could also be called sci-fi. Take the film the Time Travelers Wife. this is something that on the surface could be coined sci-fi, but really its a romantic fantasy. about a love that is created between two people who cannot be together.
Jordans series that I am currently reading Sets things up in a very plausible reality. Everything makes sense and holds together.
Even the more fantastical beings in the story like Trollocs and Fades are considered purely legends and tall tales among the majority of people until events come about to bring them face to face with them.
the story deals with prophecy and the repeating cycle of life and events. there are many fantastical elements to the story that are all well explained, but it mainly follows characters with real problems who get swept up in events that are not only beyond their ability to control but also beyond their ability to remove themselves from.
the first book Wheel of Time was 668 pages long and took me nearly 7 weeks to work my way through. It was just so densly written. It felt like forever but had a solid payoff. The second book was 100 pages longer and took me two weeks to read. same with the 3rd. The fourth 900 page book has taken a little longer because I have been doing a lot of drawing.
They just keep getting better though.
If you look at someone like Stephen King for example, he can write a small story about a woman and child trapped in a car during a heat wave by a rabid dog (true horror) Then he can follow it up with a tale of some kids who for 30 years are terrorized by a giant interdimensional spider that can make itself look like a clown. (Fantasy Horror)
all of his stories approach the horror angle from different directions, but no matter what the protagonist is, it always comes back to the characters. The MIST was all about the characters. The STAND. CARRIE THE SHINING OBLIVION SOMETIMES THEY COME BACK
That is one of the unwritten rules of horror that some horror writers fail to recognise. No matter how freaky your monster, it all comes back to the people.
Look at Asimov. The foundation series puts forth some fantastical and in some ways implausible ideas. But when Harry Seldon talks, you can fully relate.
That is what Wlking Dead also does. Puts characters in a fantastical situation and watches what THEY do.
That is why I said repeatedly that a single issue is not enough to pass judgement on. Really the first 6 issues give you a better feel for what they are like.
BTW; Robert Jordan is the best writer of Conan who is not named Robert E. Howard. This is a universally agreed upon fact.
Reading Jordan or Howard, you can get the feeling that these era's could have actually been some pre historical time period.
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Post by defiant1 on Nov 21, 2010 22:17:58 GMT -5
No offense to your friend, But his problems were happening long before Anne McCafreys contrived PERN novels. No offense taken. The last night we went out as friends, I was trying to encourage him to socialize and quit isolating himself with his shame. I ended up meeting the girl I date now. I did not achieve the goal I intended, but I seemed to be rewarded in the cosmic scheme of things for trying. I really do think there is a problem when people relate more to fantasy than they do reality. I purposely avoided Time Travelers wife because it looked like fantasy. The only Stephen King movie I liked was Silver Bullet (?) or whatever the werewolf movie was called. It involved one leap of faith and beyond that it was a fairly plausible series of events as I recall. I'm really curious what you'd think of Strangehaven if you started with the first TPB. Great art. Compelling story. Mysterious characters that you can learn from. It covers everything from the social customs of drinking tea to African mysticism. df1
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Post by joe on Nov 22, 2010 8:12:57 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D I like!
I like Stephen Kings writing...gives me something to do at work.
So far I have read (in order of most favorite to least):
Misery IT Tommyknockers The Stand
Any suggestions for the next one?
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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 22, 2010 11:53:38 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D I like! I like Stephen Kings writing...gives me something to do at work. So far I have read (in order of most favorite to least): Misery IT Tommyknockers The Stand Any suggestions for the next one? Read the Talisman. that was always a favorite. Hearts in Atlantis is good and different from the film. The Gunslinger Series is incredible. But I recommend reading a few more of his books before you dig into that, because it weaves in and out of all of his books. The Shining is a must and is far different than Kubriks film. OBLIVION and the REGULATORS are also good (in that order) Needful things and any of his short story books really. defiant 1: Amazing how Karma works huh. I gave up on chasing the ladies after my last girlfriend suprised me on my birthday by breaking up with me. I didn't date all summer, then in august of that year I went out drinking with my friend Alan and his wife and met my future wife. Wasn't even looking, and didn't even try to pick up on her. We just went to see a band that I was friends with playing, and when I walked up to say hi to them, she was standing where I decided to stand. somehow the girl ended up digging me. Which should have been my first sign that she must have escaped from a mental ward.
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Post by joe on Dec 28, 2010 10:27:27 GMT -5
Done, you are right, that is a good one. My favorite part was the uncle ripping and tearing the sky apart to get to the territories. Very well written.
Apparently there is a sequel...The Black House. Just started it and after about 40 pages seems like it is off to a rather slow start. Hopefully things will pick up.
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Post by bigw1966 on Dec 28, 2010 11:17:50 GMT -5
Black House is pretty good. Not quite as good as the Talisman but still.
I am currently reading Robert Jordans Massive Epic, The Wheel of Time. I am nearly finished with the fifth of thirteen books. so about 3000+ pages in so far. Its pretty awesome.
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Post by joe on Jan 20, 2011 9:39:48 GMT -5
Ok, done with black house...it was good. I am 300 pages into Hearts in Atlantis and they are mentioning The Crimson King, the tower, Breakers, Beams...interesting...
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