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Post by G on Feb 1, 2011 13:01:56 GMT -5
#2's have always been given a bad rap. Even the name #2 is a bad rap unto itself. As I have been buying regularly for the past year now, I find it amazing how many #1 issues I've gotten. In fact, I'm sick of buying #1s. Especially when its on a character that has existed for decades. I'll bet you in the last year, I've seen at least ten and this is a modest number....Ten Batman titles with a number one on them. Okay, lets put Batman aside. How many other titles are out there sporting a number one? Every time I get an order from DCBS over half my books are number ones! This is every month!
I remember the very first number one I ever purchased. With a title date of April 1978, my very first #1 comic was a Machine Man #1. And that truly was a number one in every sense of the word. No, it wasn't his 1st appearance. That occurred in 2001 A Space Odyssey #8. But dammit, this was his first comic book that was strictly about him. And it had a special feeling getting that #1. I knew I was getting the start of a series and I was in on the ground floor. Far too often these days a number one just means you was suckered into the first issue of one story arc, or more commonly known as a mini or maxi series. #1's don't mean a god damn thing anymore! In fact, #1's aint rare at all. But you know what is rare (by comparison).....#2's!
I can't tell you how many times I've bought a #1 and never bought the #2. In the last year for me, I'd say its less than 10%. So that must mean that 90% of all those #1's didn't mean a shit to me. Only 1 out of 10 or even less than that compelled me to buy the 2nd issue!
I know in rare cases #2's can go on to being worth something. We all know there is a huge drop in sales from issue 1 to issue 2. Perhaps another reason we see so many #1's flooding the market. But as collectors, investors, dealers and resellers, maybe we got it all wrong. If a book becomes a hit, shit make #2 that money grabbing book! Because chances are, it's far rarer than #1! And if the book was a hit in the 1st place and completist come out of the woodwork, guess which one should be harder to find by comparison? That shit for a nickname #2!
I think it's time that if we don't value #2's in comics, then there really isn't no need to value the #1.
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Post by cyberstrike on Feb 2, 2011 16:49:26 GMT -5
I know Marvel's G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #2 often goes far more than #1 (at times it can go for double or triple the amount that #1 goes for).
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Post by G on Feb 2, 2011 22:50:42 GMT -5
I know Marvel's G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #2 often goes far more than #1 (at times it can go for double or triple the amount that #1 goes for). Yeah, a few times #2's get noticed but it's not often enough. I think this was the famous low distribution issue combined with being a #2 and a pretty hot series at the time and there was some real demand for this comic at one time. But this is a rare case. Perhaps my favorite #2 is New Teen Titans #2, 1st Deathstroke. I've always thought that book was pretty kick ass, but it's only big because it's a 1st appearance. My point is, people buy #1. In fact we buy them just because they are #1s. Now think about it. How many times do we go on to buy the #2? Now lets get 3-6 months into it. Suddenly the book is hot. The #1 jumps up to a big degree because hey, it's #1. Those who like trying new things and those that speculate on things like that, they get a chance to cash in. But #2 will almost assuredly have less than half the numbers of #1. Probably be just as right to say maybe even only 30% the numbers of #1. So if the book is a bonafide hit, why not make #2's valuable too? In fact, I'd like to think in reverse. If the #2 doesn't really have any value, then unless it is a true 1st appearance or 1st solo book, neither should #1. With less than 1/2 the numbers of #1, if a book is really a hit, than #2 should also have some real value. If it doesnt, than maybe the book isn't such a hit after all and 6 - 12 months after that, should reveal that to be exactly right. Because if a #2 has demand, then perhaps the book has some staying power. I dont know. Just tired of owning all these #1s and thinking I never buy a #2. If a lot of other people are playing the same game, then #2's are getting a bad rap. |
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 4, 2011 1:44:02 GMT -5
Many #2's are more limited, but I think there are still too many of most of them. GI Joe #2 has been going for more for a long time, but I think the supply still outweighs the demand. Spider-Man 2099 #2 was in shorter supply, but who is looking for it? #3's a#4's usually have the dip because they are typically ordered before the sales figures from #1 are known. Shops drop off orders knowing that people buy #1 and then attrition sets in. They don't usually start bumping order back up until they see the #1 sell out. With the customer base dropping and many new books selling less that 10,000 copies, there are no shortage of modern back issues for the collectors buying. If the collector's collectively felt as though the #2's were in demand and undervalued, they'd be coming out of the woodwork. I seem to recall Spawn #27 or somewhere in that range was in less supply, but who is looking for it and willing to shell out a higher price?
df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Feb 4, 2011 11:27:54 GMT -5
Many #2's are more limited, but I think there are still too many of most of them. GI Joe #2 has been going for more for a long time, but I think the supply still outweighs the demand. Spider-Man 2099 #2 was in shorter supply, but who is looking for it? #3's a#4's usually have the dip because they are typically ordered before the sales figures from #1 are known. Shops drop off orders knowing that people buy #1 and then attrition sets in. They don't usually start bumping order back up until they see the #1 sell out. With the customer base dropping and many new books selling less that 10,000 copies, there are no shortage of modern back issues for the collectors buying. If the collector's collectively felt as though the #2's were in demand and undervalued, they'd be coming out of the woodwork. I seem to recall Spawn #27 or somewhere in that range was in less supply, but who is looking for it and willing to shell out a higher price? df1 Starbrand posted this on VF's boards about the print runs of some recent books: Granted these are estimated print runs and not sales figures but the last time I was at my LCS I saw plenty of copies of all of the various Stan Lee/Boom titles and the Dark Key books on the shelf gathering dust. |
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Post by G on Feb 4, 2011 13:37:27 GMT -5
Many #2's are more limited, but I think there are still too many of most of them. GI Joe #2 has been going for more for a long time, but I think the supply still outweighs the demand. Spider-Man 2099 #2 was in shorter supply, but who is looking for it? #3's a#4's usually have the dip because they are typically ordered before the sales figures from #1 are known. Shops drop off orders knowing that people buy #1 and then attrition sets in. They don't usually start bumping order back up until they see the #1 sell out. With the customer base dropping and many new books selling less that 10,000 copies, there are no shortage of modern back issues for the collectors buying. If the collector's collectively felt as though the #2's were in demand and undervalued, they'd be coming out of the woodwork. I seem to recall Spawn #27 or somewhere in that range was in less supply, but who is looking for it and willing to shell out a higher price? df1 Starbrand posted this on VF's boards about the print runs of some recent books: Granted these are estimated print runs and not sales figures but the last time I was at my LCS I saw plenty of copies of all of the various Stan Lee/Boom titles and the Dark Key books on the shelf gathering dust. From that list, I would say none of those #1's should be worth anything. The one I feel should be the closest, would be John Byrne's Next Men #1. The Dark Horse Valiant crap has produced NO buzz outside of Valiant Mobsters. The Stan Lee books suck because they are too kiddy and corny. I don't know about the Occultist. I think this is one of the only ones on the list I don't have. The fact of the matter is, no one really wants the #2s, so all those #1's should be in dumpsters very soon. |
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 4, 2011 15:48:02 GMT -5
Starbrand posted this on VF's boards about the print runs of some recent books: Granted these are estimated print runs and not sales figures but the last time I was at my LCS I saw plenty of copies of all of the various Stan Lee/Boom titles and the Dark Key books on the shelf gathering dust. From that list, I would say none of those #1's should be worth anything. The one I feel should be the closest, would be John Byrne's Next Men #1. The Dark Horse Valiant crap has produced NO buzz outside of Valiant Mobsters. The Stan Lee books suck because they are too kiddy and corny. I don't know about the Occultist. I think this is one of the only ones on the list I don't have. The fact of the matter is, no one really wants the #2s, so all those #1's should be in dumpsters very soon. As faces change and old 90's customers wander into a store, it is possible that low print run comics get bought up and obtain an after market value in 4 or 5 years. I'm not predicting a solid future for comics or any printed matter, so I'm not willing to take that gamble. The Occultist is a character which Dark Horse is eveidently trying to tie into the Gold Key universe... seriously though... who cares?! df1 |
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 4, 2011 15:50:42 GMT -5
Many #2's are more limited, but I think there are still too many of most of them. GI Joe #2 has been going for more for a long time, but I think the supply still outweighs the demand. Spider-Man 2099 #2 was in shorter supply, but who is looking for it? #3's a#4's usually have the dip because they are typically ordered before the sales figures from #1 are known. Shops drop off orders knowing that people buy #1 and then attrition sets in. They don't usually start bumping order back up until they see the #1 sell out. With the customer base dropping and many new books selling less that 10,000 copies, there are no shortage of modern back issues for the collectors buying. If the collector's collectively felt as though the #2's were in demand and undervalued, they'd be coming out of the woodwork. I seem to recall Spawn #27 or somewhere in that range was in less supply, but who is looking for it and willing to shell out a higher price? df1 Starbrand posted this on VF's boards about the print runs of some recent books: Granted these are estimated print runs and not sales figures but the last time I was at my LCS I saw plenty of copies of all of the various Stan Lee/Boom titles and the Dark Key books on the shelf gathering dust. Print comics are dying. The industry keeps milking the customer that doesn't cost them money to chase and they are not investing in the future. I saw the "Dark Key" comics gathering dust also, so it's only a matter of time before retailers put a huge goose egg on their order forms and skip ordering the entire line. df1 |
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Post by G on Feb 4, 2011 16:05:29 GMT -5
Let me give a recent example.
Not that I totally agree with this because I didn't buy it when I had the chance, but I have to admit to liking some of the covers so I've since preordered a couple of these and I will make up my own mind when I read a few. But just as ONE example (and I'm sure there are many others)....
Morning Glories
It was an instant hit as soon as it came out. The hype machine started turning and #1's were worth money the day they arrived. There was a real buzz about them. Unlike so many #1's where you get it and go yawn, this book had people hyping this thing up. So what happens next is Morning Glories #2 comes out and it immediately sells out as well and it is now worth more than the original cover price.
So this is my deal....All those other comics that was listed before, I would expect to find them in the dumpsters within 6-12 months and I'm gonna pay a buck each to get them. I can have all the Dark Key Comics and Stan Lee comics I want for $1 each pretty soon. Because when #2 came out, we all were yawning at them. Nobody wanted them. Only the die hards.
I'm not expecting to find ANY Morning Glories #1's in dollar boxes within the next 6 - 12 months. And one reason I feel that way is people wanted #2 as well. Maybe over time they will come down and I'm sure they will. But the fact of the matter is, I don't expect to find them in junk boxes any time soon. The fact that #2 is currently asking around $10 a pop tells me it has more staying power than any of those other books we mentioned earlier.
So I'm trying to say that since #2 has a buzz as well, then the #1 should retain its value for some time.
If a #2 comes out and people could care less, than I don't expect those #1's to be worth anything either.
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Post by cyberstrike on Feb 4, 2011 17:09:32 GMT -5
Starbrand posted this on VF's boards about the print runs of some recent books: Granted these are estimated print runs and not sales figures but the last time I was at my LCS I saw plenty of copies of all of the various Stan Lee/Boom titles and the Dark Key books on the shelf gathering dust. Print comics are dying. The industry keeps milking the customer that doesn't cost them money to chase and they are not investing in the future. I saw the "Dark Key" comics gathering dust also, so it's only a matter of time before retailers put a huge goose egg on their order forms and skip ordering the entire line. df1 If Diamond doesn't beat them to it unless Diamond treats it's Premier Publishers differently. IIRC Diamond has a policy if a book fails to get an order of 5,000 copies, then won't carry the title. I mean look at Dr. Solar for example if those numbers are right then chances are the book won't make it to #9 (and that is being extremely generous), or it will cost DH more to keep it around. I mean at what point will DH, IDW, Boom, and/or Diamond say: "These books are costing us more to print and they're not selling and not getting any buzz/hype and we should cancel them?" Are they waiting for Diamond to say: "Hey Boom, Solider Zero, The Traveler, and Starborn are not meeting our limits and we can't carry them? Or Hey DH we're sorry but Dr. Solar, Magnus, Turok, and Mighty Samson are not meeting our limits and we can't carry them?" Then DH and Boom can blame Diamond for canceling their shitty comics and not blame it on poor sales, their idiotic management, and their own piss poor marketing? |
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