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Post by defiant1 on Feb 5, 2011 2:03:34 GMT -5
Let me give a recent example. Not that I totally agree with this because I didn't buy it when I had the chance, but I have to admit to liking some of the covers so I've since preordered a couple of these and I will make up my own mind when I read a few. But just as ONE example (and I'm sure there are many others).... Morning Glories It was an instant hit as soon as it came out. The hype machine started turning and #1's were worth money the day they arrived. There was a real buzz about them. Unlike so many #1's where you get it and go yawn, this book had people hyping this thing up. So what happens next is Morning Glories #2 comes out and it immediately sells out as well and it is now worth more than the original cover price. So this is my deal....All those other comics that was listed before, I would expect to find them in the dumpsters within 6-12 months and I'm gonna pay a buck each to get them. I can have all the Dark Key Comics and Stan Lee comics I want for $1 each pretty soon. Because when #2 came out, we all were yawning at them. Nobody wanted them. Only the die hards. I'm not expecting to find ANY Morning Glories #1's in dollar boxes within the next 6 - 12 months. And one reason I feel that way is people wanted #2 as well. Maybe over time they will come down and I'm sure they will. But the fact of the matter is, I don't expect to find them in junk boxes any time soon. The fact that #2 is currently asking around $10 a pop tells me it has more staying power than any of those other books we mentioned earlier. So I'm trying to say that since #2 has a buzz as well, then the #1 should retain its value for some time. If a #2 comes out and people could care less, than I don't expect those #1's to be worth anything either. It ain't gonna happen. #2's are just that... 2nd. Silver age & Golden age #2's have a fraction of the demand, but retailers want at least 50% for a first issue in comparable grade. #2's are historically overpriced. df1
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Post by G on Feb 5, 2011 2:58:34 GMT -5
Let me give a recent example. Not that I totally agree with this because I didn't buy it when I had the chance, but I have to admit to liking some of the covers so I've since preordered a couple of these and I will make up my own mind when I read a few. But just as ONE example (and I'm sure there are many others).... Morning Glories It was an instant hit as soon as it came out. The hype machine started turning and #1's were worth money the day they arrived. There was a real buzz about them. Unlike so many #1's where you get it and go yawn, this book had people hyping this thing up. So what happens next is Morning Glories #2 comes out and it immediately sells out as well and it is now worth more than the original cover price. So this is my deal....All those other comics that was listed before, I would expect to find them in the dumpsters within 6-12 months and I'm gonna pay a buck each to get them. I can have all the Dark Key Comics and Stan Lee comics I want for $1 each pretty soon. Because when #2 came out, we all were yawning at them. Nobody wanted them. Only the die hards. I'm not expecting to find ANY Morning Glories #1's in dollar boxes within the next 6 - 12 months. And one reason I feel that way is people wanted #2 as well. Maybe over time they will come down and I'm sure they will. But the fact of the matter is, I don't expect to find them in junk boxes any time soon. The fact that #2 is currently asking around $10 a pop tells me it has more staying power than any of those other books we mentioned earlier. So I'm trying to say that since #2 has a buzz as well, then the #1 should retain its value for some time. If a #2 comes out and people could care less, than I don't expect those #1's to be worth anything either. It ain't gonna happen. #2's are just that... 2nd. Silver age & Golden age #2's have a fraction of the demand, but retailers want at least 50% for a first issue in comparable grade. #2's are historically overpriced. df1 For the moderate to late past, I would agree with all of this. My theory is meant mainly for books coming out now. If #2 ain't holding any mass appeal, than I think #1 is just a flash in the pan at best. I think #2's today could act as a barometer on whether or not #1s are worth holding onto or not. But I'm talking pretty much strictly on books that come out now. That's why I think Morning Glories was a good example.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 5, 2011 4:46:20 GMT -5
Print comics are dying. The industry keeps milking the customer that doesn't cost them money to chase and they are not investing in the future. I saw the "Dark Key" comics gathering dust also, so it's only a matter of time before retailers put a huge goose egg on their order forms and skip ordering the entire line. df1 If Diamond doesn't beat them to it unless Diamond treats it's Premier Publishers differently. IIRC Diamond has a policy if a book fails to get an order of 5,000 copies, then won't carry the title. I mean look at Dr. Solar for example if those numbers are right then chances are the book won't make it to #9 (and that is being extremely generous), or it will cost DH more to keep it around. I mean at what point will DH, IDW, Boom, and/or Diamond say: "These books are costing us more to print and they're not selling and not getting any buzz/hype and we should cancel them?" Are they waiting for Diamond to say: "Hey Boom, Solider Zero, The Traveler, and Starborn are not meeting our limits and we can't carry them? Or Hey DH we're sorry but Dr. Solar, Magnus, Turok, and Mighty Samson are not meeting our limits and we can't carry them?" Then DH and Boom can blame Diamond for canceling their shitty comics and not blame it on poor sales, their idiotic management, and their own piss poor marketing? If you read Diamond's policy for carrying books, they reserved the right to deviate from that policy. My guess is that someone finally did a time study or cost analysis and discovered that books selling under 5,000 (I'm trusting your number) are not profitable for Diamond. The labor to handle one book quickly negates the profit margin on the book. If you factor overhead, I seriously doubt that books selling under 15,000 copies make any money. I think Diamond will support Dark Horse more than they would the smaller guys. With books like Hulk only selling 38,000 copies, I doubt Marvel can pay for all the marketing they do. The higher print run comics are supporting the low print run comics. The publishing side of Dark Horse cannot be doing well. I think that's why you see books with no inker or books with the writer drawing the story. Joss Whedon's stuff and maybe Star Wars is the only thing keeping them afloat. Giving away 80,000 comics on Free Comic Book Day at below cost has to hurt them. df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Feb 6, 2011 15:06:39 GMT -5
If Diamond doesn't beat them to it unless Diamond treats it's Premier Publishers differently. IIRC Diamond has a policy if a book fails to get an order of 5,000 copies, then won't carry the title. I mean look at Dr. Solar for example if those numbers are right then chances are the book won't make it to #9 (and that is being extremely generous), or it will cost DH more to keep it around. I mean at what point will DH, IDW, Boom, and/or Diamond say: "These books are costing us more to print and they're not selling and not getting any buzz/hype and we should cancel them?" Are they waiting for Diamond to say: "Hey Boom, Solider Zero, The Traveler, and Starborn are not meeting our limits and we can't carry them? Or Hey DH we're sorry but Dr. Solar, Magnus, Turok, and Mighty Samson are not meeting our limits and we can't carry them?" Then DH and Boom can blame Diamond for canceling their shitty comics and not blame it on poor sales, their idiotic management, and their own piss poor marketing? If you read Diamond's policy for carrying books, they reserved the right to deviate from that policy. My guess is that someone finally did a time study or cost analysis and discovered that books selling under 5,000 (I'm trusting your number) are not profitable for Diamond. The labor to handle one book quickly negates the profit margin on the book. If you factor overhead, I seriously doubt that books selling under 15,000 copies make any money. I think Diamond will support Dark Horse more than they would the smaller guys. With books like Hulk only selling 38,000 copies, I doubt Marvel can pay for all the marketing they do. The higher print run comics are supporting the low print run comics. The publishing side of Dark Horse cannot be doing well. I think that's why you see books with no inker or books with the writer drawing the story. Joss Whedon's stuff and maybe Star Wars is the only thing keeping them afloat. Giving away 80,000 comics on Free Comic Book Day at below cost has to hurt them. df1 True. The Savage Dragon is selling about 4,200 copies a month baring the occasional boost (like the Dragon endorsing Obama on the cover a few years ago) and from what I read it seems that Erik Larson is doing the whole book by himself these days (write, pencil, ink, color, and letter) which would save some overhead.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 6, 2011 17:05:19 GMT -5
If you read Diamond's policy for carrying books, they reserved the right to deviate from that policy. My guess is that someone finally did a time study or cost analysis and discovered that books selling under 5,000 (I'm trusting your number) are not profitable for Diamond. The labor to handle one book quickly negates the profit margin on the book. If you factor overhead, I seriously doubt that books selling under 15,000 copies make any money. I think Diamond will support Dark Horse more than they would the smaller guys. With books like Hulk only selling 38,000 copies, I doubt Marvel can pay for all the marketing they do. The higher print run comics are supporting the low print run comics. The publishing side of Dark Horse cannot be doing well. I think that's why you see books with no inker or books with the writer drawing the story. Joss Whedon's stuff and maybe Star Wars is the only thing keeping them afloat. Giving away 80,000 comics on Free Comic Book Day at below cost has to hurt them. df1 True. The Savage Dragon is selling about 4,200 copies a month baring the occasional boost (like the Dragon endorsing Obama on the cover a few years ago) and from what I read it seems that Erik Larson is doing the whole book by himself these days (write, pencil, ink, color, and letter) which would save some overhead. I was chatting with Bob Burden years ago before the Mystery Men movie came out. He was showing me sketches of the characters. He was explaining the costs associated with self-publishing... especially advertising. He did not see it as being profitable enough to self-publish even in the 90's when comics were doing better. I think computers have lowered some costs, but comics are selling much more poorly now than then. I picked up a copy of the latest issue of 2600 magazine. It's a hacker magazine that comes out quarterly. I started reading the first article which is about their transition to digital distribution. I really don't see digital distribution an answer. It will require comic publishers to find a new customer base since most comic collectors want something tangible. Apple now wants to stop 3rd party apps from selling product outside of the Apple store. These hand held devices will likely take a piece of the monetary pie before a publisher gets the money they need. df1
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Post by G on Feb 7, 2011 0:31:27 GMT -5
I really don't see digital distribution an answer. It will require comic publishers to find a new customer base since most comic collectors want something tangible. Apple now wants to stop 3rd party apps from selling product outside of the Apple store. These hand held devices will likely take a piece of the monetary pie before a publisher gets the money they need. I laughed out loud when I seen what Apple was up to. Comic Publishers have been flocking to digital comics like it was the Golden Calf of Moses people that he left behind while he went up into the mountains. Comic publishers almost seem to want to drop comics altogether and go exclusively digital comics and leave comic readers with nothing further to hold in their hands but a smart phone or tablet to view comics. I can honestly say when it gets to that point as the only means of reading new comics, I'm out. I don't give a shit about reading comics on a hand held device. We already have tv, movies, Netflix, internet, etc. I don't need to read comics on these devices. Comics are the escape from those kind of devices. I cannot collect comics that way. It just becomes a file or application at that point. It's no longer anything I can put a value on anymore. Regardless, seeing Apple say all money streams go through us just made them like a Diamond Publisher but on the digital side of things. It felt like Apple had a boner and some lube to go along with it. What next? We have Marvel and DC tablets and smart phones to escape these charges? Are we going to have iComic stores now from Apple with subscription services and unlimited downloads? Fuck all that.
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Post by cyberstrike on Feb 7, 2011 12:33:23 GMT -5
I really don't see digital distribution an answer. It will require comic publishers to find a new customer base since most comic collectors want something tangible. Apple now wants to stop 3rd party apps from selling product outside of the Apple store. These hand held devices will likely take a piece of the monetary pie before a publisher gets the money they need. I laughed out loud when I seen what Apple was up to. Comic Publishers have been flocking to digital comics like it was the Golden Calf of Moses people that he left behind while he went up into the mountains. Comic publishers almost seem to want to drop comics altogether and go exclusively digital comics and leave comic readers with nothing further to hold in their hands but a smart phone or tablet to view comics. I can honestly say when it gets to that point as the only means of reading new comics, I'm out. I don't give a shit about reading comics on a hand held device. We already have tv, movies, Netflix, internet, etc. I don't need to read comics on these devices. Comics are the escape from those kind of devices. I cannot collect comics that way. It just becomes a file or application at that point. It's no longer anything I can put a value on anymore. Regardless, seeing Apple say all money streams go through us just made them like a Diamond Publisher but on the digital side of things. It felt like Apple had a boner and some lube to go along with it. What next? We have Marvel and DC tablets and smart phones to escape these charges? Are we going to have iComic stores now from Apple with subscription services and unlimited downloads? Fuck all that. The sad truth is that for us old farts this is the end of comics as we know them. Kids these days don't want to read comics (or print novels, newspapers, or magazines) now of days, so if comics are going to have a future then my guess is that will be a digital future like everything else. I don't like it either. I like the ability to hold a comic book, TPB, hardcover, novel, magazine, newspaper, CD, DVD, Blu-Ray Disk in my hands and read, play, listen, and/or watch them when I want to and not have to pay Apple (which is the second most valuable company on the planet BTW) or some other company to download a comic, novel, magazine, or newspaper into an eReader, iPad, or iPhone for a price.
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