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Post by G on Aug 11, 2011 19:29:59 GMT -5
The book itself doesn't interest me especially if we can do a whole bunch of namedropping on it. To me it makes it that much less impressive. I personally wouldn't bid on things with established logos on it. To me it defeats the concept. The topic is about Kickstarter and the Womanthology book was just an example shown of one of the promotions and not the subject itself. A Womanthology thread can be started elsewhere if you like but it's really not the subject at hand.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 12, 2011 17:07:56 GMT -5
The book itself doesn't interest me especially if we can do a whole bunch of namedropping on it. To me it makes it that much less impressive. I personally wouldn't bid on things with established logos on it. To me it defeats the concept. The topic is about Kickstarter and the Womanthology book was just an example shown of one of the promotions and not the subject itself. A Womanthology thread can be started elsewhere if you like but it's really not the subject at hand. Here's how I view success. If I (being a nobody) print a book and 1000 people who personally know me buy it, that isn't success. If a 1000 strangers buy it, that's a pretty significant accomplishment. I don't know how many artists have contributed or hyped the book, but to me, the book's sales aren't impressive when you factor that many are supporting it simply because they personally know someone being included. When you factor that successful writers like Gaiman are promoting, that makes it even less impressive to me. To me this book is just receiving handouts. It's begging. There isn't anything sustainable here because the handouts are eventually going to dry up and they aren't grabbing fish from outside the pond. df1
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Post by G on Aug 12, 2011 20:20:57 GMT -5
The thing about it is this has the potential for nobodies like me and you to potentially sell to 1,000 people who we do not know and vice versa. Depending on what someone could throw together to promote their own work and give off an impressive presentation, this does have potential for people with no backing.
Now if I have to throw in names that everyone knows to get my product to sell, than I agree right along with you. I haven't accomplished a damn thing. No one bought it because of me. It's like saying...
See my work along with special guest penciler of part 2, Neil Adams.
Sometimes you have to go for broke, have some balls and float on your own.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 12, 2011 23:33:05 GMT -5
The thing about it is this has the potential for nobodies like me and you to potentially sell to 1,000 people who we do not know and vice versa. Depending on what someone could throw together to promote their own work and give off an impressive presentation, this does have potential for people with no backing. Now if I have to throw in names that everyone knows to get my product to sell, than I agree right along with you. I haven't accomplished a damn thing. No one bought it because of me. It's like saying... See my work along with special guest penciler of part 2, Neil Adams. Sometimes you have to go for broke, have some balls and float on your own. I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that this site's creation was funded by venture capitalists that were looking for lucrative ways to invest their money. The problem this site has for you and me is that other people like you and me aren't going to go there to look for ways to spend our money. You still have to aggressively market whatever you post there. You don't need their site for that. You can keep a running tab on a blog with a paypal button and get the same results. For kickstarter to really pay off, you've got to have a really great idea, probably work your ass off promoting it and then hope a vulture of an investor doesn't try to rob you blind. If you were to go there with a truly lucrative and stunning idea, you'd be exposing your poker hand to the public and all the venture capitalists that can potentially shoot you down, duplicate whatever you are doing, and leave you in the dust. They offer a service, but they are selling and leeching off dreams. You don't need kickstarter if you have a great idea that will make money. There are plenty of investors out there looking for ways to flip their money for a profit. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 15, 2011 9:38:37 GMT -5
Kickstarter is a non profit group that not only allows creators to get funding for a comic book, but also for a film. or a television show, or a record album. comics is just one category.
Kickstarter doesn't charge for the service. Also, the bidding portion is limited to a specific timeframe, if your project doesn't meet the funding that it is seeking within that timeframe, then at the end, no one is charged for the amount they promised to donate. This is a far better method than having your paypal account collecting the money. What happens if you do not meet your funding? do you get paypal to return their fees so you can pay back the people who provided support? do you keep their money and say have a great day?
Kickstarter is the best method going. It has helped a number of creators, both known professionals and non-pros alike.
As for promotion, Ray has a lot of followers. He has a full list on facebook and a huge amount on twitter. He promoted the hell out of the book, and everyone else retweeted it. Everyone supported itbecause they feel that its a good reason to make a book with a number of creators who deserve a shot. plus its an oversized 350 page hardcover book like the DC Absolute Editions, with a $50 pricetag.
Venture capitalists? never would I get involved with one. First they would demand stake in your property, and because they are investing, would take advantage so that it was more beneficial to them. Second, they would also be in a position of demanding unrealistic results, such as meeting certain sales points or how you promote it and a number of other things. This way, with Kickstarter, the creators can take care of getting it printed and produced, then just pay a publisher to put the book out for them. I would never invest money in something that would only be seen by 1000 people. That is not success, that is vanity. I would much rather utilize the distribution strength of a company that can put my product in front of a million people, and also get the notice of outside groups who watch those bigger publishers, like the film industry.
Also, some vulture cannot go onto kickstarter and steal your idea and try to promote a similar one. that was already attempted and shut down in one day. Plus, just by publically showcasing your project on their site, you are protected with your ownership of product even without having to apply for a copyright.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 18, 2011 19:43:33 GMT -5
Kickstarter is a non profit group that not only allows creators to get funding for a comic book, but also for a film. or a television show, or a record album. comics is just one category. Kickstarter doesn't charge for the service. Also, the bidding portion is limited to a specific timeframe, if your project doesn't meet the funding that it is seeking within that timeframe, then at the end, no one is charged for the amount they promised to donate. This is a far better method than having your paypal account collecting the money. What happens if you do not meet your funding? do you get paypal to return their fees so you can pay back the people who provided support? do you keep their money and say have a great day? Kickstarter is the best method going. It has helped a number of creators, both known professionals and non-pros alike. As for promotion, Ray has a lot of followers. He has a full list on facebook and a huge amount on twitter. He promoted the hell out of the book, and everyone else retweeted it. Everyone supported itbecause they feel that its a good reason to make a book with a number of creators who deserve a shot. plus its an oversized 350 page hardcover book like the DC Absolute Editions, with a $50 pricetag. Venture capitalists? never would I get involved with one. First they would demand stake in your property, and because they are investing, would take advantage so that it was more beneficial to them. Second, they would also be in a position of demanding unrealistic results, such as meeting certain sales points or how you promote it and a number of other things. This way, with Kickstarter, the creators can take care of getting it printed and produced, then just pay a publisher to put the book out for them. I would never invest money in something that would only be seen by 1000 people. That is not success, that is vanity. I would much rather utilize the distribution strength of a company that can put my product in front of a million people, and also get the notice of outside groups who watch those bigger publishers, like the film industry. Also, some vulture cannot go onto kickstarter and steal your idea and try to promote a similar one. that was already attempted and shut down in one day. Plus, just by publically showcasing your project on their site, you are protected with your ownership of product even without having to apply for a copyright. Where do you get that they are non-profit. They take 5% of each project. The company may not make a profit, but you can bet the employees are doing it for profit! Possible even kickbacks. The projects that appear on the site are chosen by editors. It would be EXTREMELY easy to siphon off EXCEPTIONAL ideas for the real investor... people with big money. Kickstarter can't protect intellectual property theft. They make no guarantees that the project will be completed if the money is collected. You live in a dreamworld Mike. I'd call it naive. Look at this junk... It doesn't even sound remotely interesting. I think G had it right. Kickstarter backing an established company or creator isn't really that impressive. I stand by my assertion that it's begging. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 20, 2011 19:33:19 GMT -5
From the moment of creation, you own your concept. If you post it publically adding a (c) to it is enough to protect you. Especially if its embedded. Kickstarter probably does get a nominal fee for facilitating the auctions. I have no doubt of that. However, they in no way have any -ownership- of the projects that get bid on from their site. As for who they help, Yeah Palmiotti was pushing his own project on there. Why not? He is a comic creator just like anyone else. Just because he works for the big boys, doesn't guarantee that he will be able to get any of his personal projects greenlit, especially if he owns it. Much better to get outside funding, so that you can maintain control of it. You should see what some of the rules are for image comics to finance your creator owned project. Its open to anyone in the creative field, and not just for marketing. Shit, former comic Artist/Writer that I am friends with Kevin Vanhook, got financing for a film he was making through Kickstarter. He does a lot of films as a Director also. Amatuer, slightly unknown, established creator? They all are creators with a dream. Also defiant, my fantasy world is a pretty swell place to live in, so don't knock it. Just because you don't have any rainbows and unicorns in your life doesn't mean you get to stomp on mine.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 20, 2011 20:55:35 GMT -5
I prefer being realistic. Unicorns will take a shit in your front yard just like any other animal. I don't need them. I don't stomp on dreams, but I'm careful which ones I follow. Copyright or not, creative ideas are just that. Some people just need a foundation like the guy who founded facebook and got sued. The idea for facebook wasn't his. He was still able to creatively steal it and do what the twins weren't able to do on their own. The same is true for Bill Gates. People who already have money just need a creative inspiration. They can tweak it and change it and go from there.
df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 22, 2011 9:49:19 GMT -5
I was just reading an article in the newest issue of Game Informer, a video game mag that I get. Apparently there are some poeple trying to create and open a Video Game museum. They are using kickstarter to build up funding.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 22, 2011 16:12:22 GMT -5
I was just reading an article in the newest issue of Game Informer, a video game mag that I get. Apparently there are some poeple trying to create and open a Video Game museum. They are using kickstarter to build up funding. I prefer to see something unique like that. The thing is, by simply releasing that info, a rich investor can go do it right and do it better without the originator of the idea at all. The originator can't copyright an idea like that. In this economy though, a museum is one of the last things I'd try to start. Some very legit ones that used to do well are struggling now. df1
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