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Post by azbatx on Apr 8, 2012 19:31:27 GMT -5
Hate them for what they were but check them out now. They have some of the best books to read on the market today.
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Post by G on May 15, 2012 22:29:33 GMT -5
The price of comics is not a good value - Back when I started collecting comics with cover dates of April 1979, comics were 35 cents a piece. At the time, comics had been going through a lot of price changes already. I can remember looking at my friends comics and comics that were not that old had cover prices of 20, 25 and 30 cents quite regularly. This covered about 5 years the jump from 20 to 35 cents. But even still, at 35 cents a pop, comics seemed like a great value to me.
In 1978 I was 11 and I mowed a lot of lawns and raked many a yard. When I was 12, I had my own paper route. To be honest, in those days of not having a real job and real responsibilities, I was probably living a rich life. I didnt have bills and the money I had was mine to spend. It was nothing for me to have $20 - $100 at all times. Let me say, as an 11 year old kid, having that much money in the 1970s, I could do a lot. And I did. I had a blast. I went to the arcade a lot and spent hours playing the latest pinball machines and ancient video games (yes, they were crude, but they did exist). But lets just take a modest time and say I had $10 - $20. I could literally spend a couple of bucks and come home with a hearty stack of comics and hours of reading material. And still have money left over. Comics were a relative bargain back then. When I think of other things there were to do and how much it cost, nothing really compared to the value of comics.
Flash forward to 2012 and yes, the cost of everything has skyrocketed from that day 34 years ago. Comics has went up nearly constantly ever since then. Gone are the days of comics being a cheap bargain. Comics start out almost entirely at no lower than $4 a shot. And its not too uncommon I see them going for as much as $7 and $8 for a brand new comic. Now the thing that gets me, is comics in relation to other forms of print media.
A comic today is literally around 32 pages of glossy pages complete with about 10 pages of advertisements. The thing that gets me is I can buy some of my favorite Magazines with premium stock paper and glossy photos sporting well over 300 pages in an issue and pay $7 and sometimes less for that amount of print media. If I can get 300+ pages of Magazine quality Magazines that are not only bigger in size, maybe even more entertaining, then why does it cost me a minimum of $4 to get just 32 pages of smaller comics? Where is the value here?
Where as at one point in my life, comics barely made a dent into my budget, comics now have the potential to wreck havoc on my lifestyle if I decide to purchase more than a few comics. And if I purchase the way I did as a youngster who couldnt get enough comics, Im spending what amounts to as some kind of monthly bill that I could be applying towards my well being in my home. Quite literally, comics have just gotten too expensive and its put a lid on kids and adults wanting much to do with them.
In my mind, considering inflation and whats in relation to other forms of print media out there. I think comics should realistically be in the $1.75 to $2.50. To me, this would keep the relationship of how it felt to me buying comics as a youngster and seeing it as a bargain. I think if I could get 4 or more new comics at $10 or less, I would feel much better about it than paying the current price of $15 - $20 on average for the same amount of comics.
Comics need to retain that inexpensive feeling. Its what made them so desirable in the 1st place to me. It was a cheap thrill and the cost of buying one didnt make me feel like I lost something getting it. It felt like good entertainment and a good entertainment at a low price is a great value. Today comics are neither good entertainment (in my mind) nor at a good price, so therefore they are a poor value. So either the quality of the comics must significantly increase to justify its pricetag, or they need to cost less and be affordable to the point of being seen like it was when I was a kid and thinking "wow! I just got all these comics for this little tiny price!"
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Post by G on May 25, 2012 2:13:20 GMT -5
Comic Numbering is Confusing - If nobody has guessed by now, I'm a purist at heart and I get accused of living too far in the past when it comes to comic but I certainly believe a lot of things were better back in the day when it came to comics and one way I would say it was a lot better than then it is now is comic numbering.
Comic numbering would confuse anybody these days. Even those who have been keeping up with things would have a hard time trying to keep up with numbering. It used to be a title lived a life and it started at #1 and it ended at whatever number it ended at and that was that. If for any reason it came back with the same title, then it started over again at #1 but this time it was volume 2. Simple right? So what happened?
Somewhere along the way it was decided but someone that kids didn't want to collect a massive backlog of comic books and if a title had say 300 issues, no one really wanted to read 300 issues of backstory (to me, one of the worst terms ever invented because even I didn't go back and read 300 issues of backstory). I don't know where the idea came up that if a comic was on 300, you needed to go read 300 issues to be up to speed. I never operated that way and neither did my friends. What came into play is if I liked it so much, I had 300 issues to collect if I wanted to be a collector. Well, these big numbers often became goals. Well, comics decided we didn't want all of that and in the middle of something, say issue #362, it would decide that we no longer need to follow the current numbering on it and we'll slap a new #1 on it and go from there. Okay, you just messed up me being a collector. I don't think the reader in me minds so much but the collector in me just got pissed off. Its always funny that comic companies cared. Well, okay you can see that #1's always fair better. But what about the respect of having a comic make it to a number like 362? Shouldn't it continue to hold that honor. And how could 362 issues of backstory be a negative? Its a testament to its longevity. Because shitty comics wouldn't reach such a high number would it? Why no, I don't think it does. Well, lets just say we started over and now we run a course of 37 issues and then on the 38th issue, we remember that HEY! This comic has been around 400 issues! That's special! Dammit, in honor of this comic reaching 400 issues, issue #38 will now be renumbered #400 and from here on out we will go back to the older numbering.
I dont know about you but nothing looks more dumbass than to have your comics in order and go from issue #362 to 1 and then from there to #37 and then back to #400. It's just asinine. Well guess what? This company might decide that the entire lineup of comics needs a reboot and along around issue #25, the entire company just sported #1's on its cover. And so that numbering continues.
They like to call it jumping on points but I think for loyal fans who have been around for years, its more like a last straw and a jumping off point. And it obviously sabotages collecting and it makes it where the consumer doesn't want to go back and look at the history of the character because they don't understand the numbering anyway.
Im sorry, Volume 1 and Volume 2 just seemed like a better way to go. It worked for decades. But you know comics. They think they know something their forefathers didn't.
And in my mind, they're right. They know how to ruin comics at lot better than my old school brethren.
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Post by cyberstrike on May 25, 2012 11:50:18 GMT -5
That is not old school thinking it's GREAT idea thinking. I'm sick of "legacy" numbering. I will be the first to admit that the reasoning behind Marvel's canceling and restarting (#1 are easier to sell than #364) of all their Silver Age titles was and still is EXTREMELY STUPID!
But what was done was done.
But it's not just Marvel.
DCE, before the "New 52" was launched, did the same thing on Wonder Woman and Adventure Comics and I think it's a safe bet if Action Comics vol. 2 lasts when it gets to the issue that would be #1,000 you can expect a return to original numbering (if not sooner).
IDW tried to do that crap with The Transformers adding all the IDW G1 Mini-series, Maxi-series, one-shots, and their then ongoing series to get a #125 when it was announced that they were going to end the ongoing series at #125 and relaunch with 2 new series, #125 was renamed The Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime one-shot with a tag line above the logo saying something to the effect of "Celebrating 125 issues of Transformers!"
Another thing that gets on nerves is picking up the numbering of a series that was canceled by another publisher 20+ years ago. G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero which had 2 different continuations one at DDP which lasted for about 45 (or there about) issues and one at that is currently going on at IDW the only difference is that one by IDW has the original series writer Larry Hamma writing HIS version of the book, the same with The Transformers (also published by IDW) and both series are picking up where they left off they picked up about 21 years later. Both titles are so continuity heavy I would have to read close to 20 TPBs combined to understand what the fuck is going on.
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Post by cyberstrike on May 26, 2012 8:24:07 GMT -5
Another problem with comics is distribution. I remember buying my first super-hero comics from a spinner rack in a drug store and finding them in grocery stores as well. Of course now of days I can literally count the number of times I've seen comics (that didn't come with toys) sold in drug, grocery, or department stores on one hand and still have fingers left over (3 times) in the last 15 or so years.
You get no argument out of me that there are some books that should be sold through LCS only, but the problem is that in some cities the number of LCS are so small that it makes them hard to get to and that some LCS are dumps or so poorly ran that nobody would go to them unless they absolutely had to. Now of course there still are LCS in Indianapolis but their numbers have dwindled from the 90s (roughly from 25 to 5) and even with the internet I still perfer to buy my comics in person.
Now some would say go to Barnes and Nobles but they sell mostly major companies (Marvel, DC, Image, IDW, and Dark Horse) or books that have movies being made or by high profile creators (like Alan Moore and Stan Lee) and they specialize more in TPBs and HCs than monthlies. Also like LCS book stores like B&N aren't always in reach or long drives.
Comics need to get back on newsstands and sold at stores like Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and Meijers they need to be seen as common place items and not just speciality items.
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AC
Standout Worker
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Post by AC on Jan 27, 2014 21:18:13 GMT -5
There are certainly plenty of things wrong with comics nowadays.
Variant Covers: It all comes down to a choice, to be sure... want a different cover? Buy the different cover... Easy! I worry about more of the logistical hazards they bring to the hobby. Collecting back issues is rendered incredibly difficult. If we're to believe there's such a thing as a "new reader", why are all avenues (sans digital) of collecting so damned complicated? Say you're a "new reader"... now, flip through the back issue bin. It used to be as easy as looking at the cover. Nowadays, you need to check, and double check the issue number... check the date (if it's listed)... check the price. If *I* am having a rough time of it after over two decades of trawling the bins, I can't fathom how a "new reader" would feel. Forget about flipping through the Overstreet Guide to price your books... you need scuba gear to go deep enough to find the "regular" cover... Oh, spoiler alert... it's worth $3.
Renumbering: In the past year or so, we've had TWO Wolverine and Fantastic Four relaunches! There was a Fantastic Four #1 last January, and there's going to be another one this April... Same with Wolverine... the Hulk's getting a new #1 soon too. So, now, Mr. or Ms. New Reader, has to crack the code as to whether they're reading the Marvel NOW! Wolverine or the All-New Marvel NOW! Wolverine... which will likely have the same trade dress, same price... hell, SAME CREATIVE TEAM... what's the point of this??? I try not to follow the "business" of comics anymore... but do these #1's REALLY sell THAT much better?
Like others here, I never found a high-numbered title as "intimidating" or "overwhelming", it made me feel as though I was... as silly as it sounds, PART of something. I remember checking out the Marvel Sons of Origins book from the library... I was able to read (Uncanny) X-Men #1, an issue of a series that I was STILL collecting. Later, through the Essentials Collections, I was able to follow the ENTIRE run of Uncanny X-Men. Now... while grabbing old Uncannys found in the wild is still fun... it feels as though I'm collecting for a "dead" series. Same with the Avengers... Same with Amazing Spider-Man.
"Star" Creators: I'll spare the Byrne-ism when it comes to talent... but these books really need to be about the characters again. These characters really can "come to life" when handled effectively. Now, we get to read RICK REMENDER's uncanny avengers, and JONATHAN HICKMAN's avengers, and DAN SLOTT's superior spider-man. It's sad... reading back issues from the 1980's... house ads were all about the characters, sometimes omitting the creative teams names completely.
The Internet: I don't want to know which way writers and artists vote. I don't want to know their favorite foods. I don't want to know their girlfriends name. Just tell a good story!
edit, just remembered...
Over-saturation I: I was catching up on a few months worth of backlog, and read two books that had the character Rogue in them. In one of them, she died. The other, she's on an adventure with the female X-Men team. These characters are stretched so damn thin, to the point where even if/when big events happen to them, it's not even mentioned in the other book(s) they're starring in. It goes a long way toward making all stories meaningless... if other writers don't care, why should I?
Over-saturation II: There are, at present (April Previews Catalog) FIVE books with X-Men in the title (not counting X-Force, X-Factor and the solos). SIX books with Avengers in the title (not counting solos, and all ages titles). DC's just as bad with FIVE books with Justice League in the title. I don't even want to check on how many have Batman in the title... there has to be a better way... with the rich history of both universes, there are SO many other characters we can be reading about.
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AC
Standout Worker
Posts: 105
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Post by AC on Jan 28, 2014 12:50:09 GMT -5
To add to my renumbering rant... was going through my DCBS order for this month. I decided to treat myself to the All-New Marvel NOW! bundle, wherein they've bundled 36 books at half-price.
I was entering them into my collection spreadsheet, and noticed just how ridiculous the volume numbers have gotten. This list may be a *bit* off dependent on whether or not you consider mini-series/limited series to be legitimate "volumes" of a title... I generally don't. Also, whenever a book returns to it's "legacy" numbering, I generally consider it to be back at "Volume 1" (until the next reboot).
Avengers is on Volume 5 Captain America is up to Volume 7 Daredevil is up to Volume 4 Fantastic Four is on Volume 5 (restarted 3 times in past 3 years) Iron Man is on Volume 5 Moon Knight is on Volume 5 New Warriors is on Volume 4 Nova is on Volume 5 THE PUNISHER IS ON VOLUME TEN Secret Avengers (which launched in 2010) is on Volume 3 She-Hulk is on Volume 5 Silver Surfer is on Volume 5 Wolverine is on Volume 6 (restarted 3 times in past 3 years)
It's hard to believe this is the Marvel of today. These are Legion of Super-Heroes numbers...
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 28, 2014 18:24:52 GMT -5
To add to my renumbering rant... was going through my DCBS order for this month. I decided to treat myself to the All-New Marvel NOW! bundle, wherein they've bundled 36 books at half-price. I was entering them into my collection spreadsheet, and noticed just how ridiculous the volume numbers have gotten. This list may be a *bit* off dependent on whether or not you consider mini-series/limited series to be legitimate "volumes" of a title... I generally don't. Also, whenever a book returns to it's "legacy" numbering, I generally consider it to be back at "Volume 1" (until the next reboot). Avengers is on Volume 5 Captain America is up to Volume 7 Daredevil is up to Volume 4 Fantastic Four is on Volume 5 (restarted 3 times in past 3 years) Iron Man is on Volume 5 Moon Knight is on Volume 5 New Warriors is on Volume 4 Nova is on Volume 5 THE PUNISHER IS ON VOLUME TEN Secret Avengers (which launched in 2010) is on Volume 3 She-Hulk is on Volume 5 Silver Surfer is on Volume 5 Wolverine is on Volume 6 (restarted 3 times in past 3 years) It's hard to believe this is the Marvel of today. These are Legion of Super-Heroes numbers... I can't stand the lack of consistency. Marvel has their IT department trying to sort out how the universe of titles is interconnected and they had to create new database software to do it. df1
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 28, 2014 18:32:08 GMT -5
There are certainly plenty of things wrong with comics nowadays. Variant Covers: It all comes down to a choice, to be sure... want a different cover? Buy the different cover... Easy! I worry about more of the logistical hazards they bring to the hobby. Collecting back issues is rendered incredibly difficult. If we're to believe there's such a thing as a "new reader", why are all avenues (sans digital) of collecting so damned complicated? Say you're a "new reader"... now, flip through the back issue bin. It used to be as easy as looking at the cover. Nowadays, you need to check, and double check the issue number... check the date (if it's listed)... check the price. If *I* am having a rough time of it after over two decades of trawling the bins, I can't fathom how a "new reader" would feel. Forget about flipping through the Overstreet Guide to price your books... you need scuba gear to go deep enough to find the "regular" cover... Oh, spoiler alert... it's worth $3. Renumbering: In the past year or so, we've had TWO Wolverine and Fantastic Four relaunches! There was a Fantastic Four #1 last January, and there's going to be another one this April... Same with Wolverine... the Hulk's getting a new #1 soon too. So, now, Mr. or Ms. New Reader, has to crack the code as to whether they're reading the Marvel NOW! Wolverine or the All-New Marvel NOW! Wolverine... which will likely have the same trade dress, same price... hell, SAME CREATIVE TEAM... what's the point of this??? I try not to follow the "business" of comics anymore... but do these #1's REALLY sell THAT much better? Like others here, I never found a high-numbered title as "intimidating" or "overwhelming", it made me feel as though I was... as silly as it sounds, PART of something. I remember checking out the Marvel Sons of Origins book from the library... I was able to read (Uncanny) X-Men #1, an issue of a series that I was STILL collecting. Later, through the Essentials Collections, I was able to follow the ENTIRE run of Uncanny X-Men. Now... while grabbing old Uncannys found in the wild is still fun... it feels as though I'm collecting for a "dead" series. Same with the Avengers... Same with Amazing Spider-Man. "Star" Creators: I'll spare the Byrne-ism when it comes to talent... but these books really need to be about the characters again. These characters really can "come to life" when handled effectively. Now, we get to read RICK REMENDER's uncanny avengers, and JONATHAN HICKMAN's avengers, and DAN SLOTT's superior spider-man. It's sad... reading back issues from the 1980's... house ads were all about the characters, sometimes omitting the creative teams names completely. The Internet: I don't want to know which way writers and artists vote. I don't want to know their favorite foods. I don't want to know their girlfriends name. Just tell a good story! edit, just remembered... Over-saturation I: I was catching up on a few months worth of backlog, and read two books that had the character Rogue in them. In one of them, she died. The other, she's on an adventure with the female X-Men team. These characters are stretched so damn thin, to the point where even if/when big events happen to them, it's not even mentioned in the other book(s) they're starring in. It goes a long way toward making all stories meaningless... if other writers don't care, why should I? Over-saturation II: There are, at present (April Previews Catalog) FIVE books with X-Men in the title (not counting X-Force, X-Factor and the solos). SIX books with Avengers in the title (not counting solos, and all ages titles). DC's just as bad with FIVE books with Justice League in the title. I don't even want to check on how many have Batman in the title... there has to be a better way... with the rich history of both universes, there are SO many other characters we can be reading about. Your complaints are echoed a thousand times by the people who gave up on buying new comics. Don't post this where modern comic fans (or shills for the publisher) will defend these practices. At one point I was making an animated gif of a person riding a horse and hanging a stick down with a variant comic suspended in front of the horse's face with a string to make it walk. The perpetual #1's and variants are downright insulting to the consumer. df1
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