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Post by G on Jan 7, 2014 1:10:00 GMT -5
I think I have mentioned this before, but I've got to the point where I think the internet is helping to destroy comics and how a lot of comics suck today as compared to what I feel was great comics back when I was a kid and a teenager.
I'm not talking about the advent of digital comics which I also think has it's own damaging effects on comics. But while I am not someone who cares about digital comics, I do understand their merit and what value they could help bring a comic company. It is a source of income. My problem with digital comics is it appeals strictly to readers and I'm sorry, while I do consider myself a life long reader too, I think I am much more of a collector and this is where digital falls short with me. I don't want to read comics I cannot own. I want to own them, read them and put them away and call them mine.
No, this conversation has more to do with the fact that we can no longer be surprised by comics anymore on release day. I remember when I was a kid, you hardly had an idea what was coming besides the blurb you read at the Next Issue caption or if they gave a heads up on the letters page, which was often very little.
Now we can have a great idea what is coming well before it gets here. Comic Web Zines like CBR and Bleeding Cool and others dominate my Facebook with what they call Exclusive First Looks of digital pages and/or exclusive interviews with with writer's/artists expressing what the creator's have plans to do to a said character in the upcoming issue. In a lot of ways, this has become the expected norm and it feels like we've made stardom out of creators which is so much more easily earned these days than back in my days which only the true stand outs were made into stars of the industry.
Nowadays anyone who writes or draws or produces comics has their own Twitter page and they Twit relentlessly on their upcoming comics, views and why they feel they are so important to the industry. In today's generation, it's almost like they sell their selves to us by media more than they do on the comic pages. I read over and over creator's bragging about their accomplishments when in my day, the creator's didn't brag. They churned out the work and we didn't know what was coming until we held the comic in our hands and read it. Nowadays the hype machine has preselected who should be hot and what we should want. In my day, we were quite literally surprised.
I often feel comics has taken the surprise out of comics. We already knew a lot about what was coming down the road and often the finish product didn't live up to the hype that either they or the media machine created.
I'm to the point of nausea seeing a message on Facebook claiming this artist or writer is going to come out with this book or that and this is what they plan on doing and all the while, I'm looking at the same old group picture either posing, doing a stare down or fanning out and none of it is visually giving me a clue what to expect because it all looks like shit to me. But yet they talk about their changes to the character well before it ever hits (Something I think they need to get out of the habit of doing) and quite often give me 4 pages and sometimes more to preview the art and get a feel for what can be expected. Often the mini slice of the comic has already underwhelmed me. Lots of glitz and shiny overbearing colors and a scene that just doesn't create any feeling I want to buy it.
To me, the machine is killing it's own self by over hyping and over revealing what's going to happen. I honestly prefer the old days when I didn't know what to expect and the payoff wouldn't come until I actually opened the book up and read it.
I know those things are long gone but it seems to me a smart comic company would stop the leaks and would only promote a tiny snippet of a reveal. Like it was before.....Next Issue: Such and Such goes Mad!
It's like looking at a woman. One is naked and yeah you love naked chicks but she's exposed and the flaws are all there for all to see. As compared to the other woman who is dressed and has a bit of skin showing but all the goodies are covered up. But she leaves you wishing you could see more.
To me, comics feel like the naked lady these days. Totally exposed. And when I grew up, comics was the dressed lady you wished you could see more of.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 7, 2014 20:30:49 GMT -5
As you mentioned, when we grew up, you didn't know what was coming next except what that teaser said on the last page of the comic. Heck, you might even get a reprint if the creative team was behind on a book. In that case you had to wait 2 months to get the follow-up to the teaser. You know what! I liked it that way. I liked the surprise of a reprint every once in awhile. I kept my numbering intact and I bought every issue. Now you get a meaningless synopsis of every comic three months before it comes out. You've read the teaser pages a month early which constitutes a fourth of the comic you are going to buy anyway. I think the whole approach to selling comics is a waste. Yes, the creators egos have taken over and they don't care about the integrity of what they produce anymore. They only care about stroking their own egos and the egos of their peers. I don't think the internet is ruining comics. I think the shallow people making them are just inept and have no insight into what selling and marketing are all about.
df1
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Post by G on Jan 7, 2014 23:02:19 GMT -5
Obviously the internet itself isnt to blame, but I see it as the medium of choice to get its message across and the way it is being used seems to take any thrill out of things. Just tonight i seen CBR talking about Marvel's 2014 crossover event was going to be the death of The Watcher and asked what impact do you think will follow the Marvel Universe after his death this summer? What? Why bother to read it if you know what is going to happen 6 months in advance? Nobody told us Phoenix was going to die in X-Men #137, we just picked it up like we always did and damn, they killed Phoenix! The buzz was industry wide with shock. What the internet has destroyed is the art of the cliffhanger and the surprise ending. It doesnt exist anymore.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 8, 2014 21:41:28 GMT -5
Obviously the internet itself isnt to blame, but I see it as the medium of choice to get its message across and the way it is being used seems to take any thrill out of things. Just tonight i seen CBR talking about Marvel's 2014 crossover event was going to be the death of The Watcher and asked what impact do you think will follow the Marvel Universe after his death this summer? What? Why bother to read it if you know what is going to happen 6 months in advance? Nobody told us Phoenix was going to die in X-Men #137, we just picked it up like we always did and damn, they killed Phoenix! The buzz was industry wide with shock. What the internet has destroyed is the art of the cliffhanger and the surprise ending. It doesnt exist anymore. I agree. That was my point. Mark Waid said once the the top left panel on two open pages is the only place he can surprise the reader in a print comic. He said digital comics allow him to surprise the reader in the top left panel on every page. I thought it was an interesting comment, but are writers surprising anyone at all? df1
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Post by G on Jan 9, 2014 19:46:12 GMT -5
I guess i feel that is interesting but narrow minded as well belittles comics and oversells digital comics. It kind seems like a buzzword play like the negative overtones of the word backstory. I recall reading comics where every panel could have the potential for surprise. Everything has been narrowed down from ongoing monthies to mini series. From surprising at any point to only surprising on the upper left of a two page spread to i can do it on every page if it is digital. Comics have talked itself into being lazy when the creators of yesteryear would stay up all night trying to cram as much as it could into a story and hoped it was good enough. All i hear now is excuses and missed deadlines have become acceptable as they spend their time on Twitter and conventions.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 9, 2014 21:06:47 GMT -5
I guess i feel that is interesting but narrow minded as well belittles comics and oversells digital comics. It kind seems like a buzzword play like the negative overtones of the word backstory. I recall reading comics where every panel could have the potential for surprise. Everything has been narrowed down from ongoing monthies to mini series. From surprising at any point to only surprising on the upper left of a two page spread to i can do it on every page if it is digital. Comics have talked itself into being lazy when the creators of yesteryear would stay up all night trying to cram as much as it could into a story and hoped it was good enough. All i hear now is excuses and missed deadlines have become acceptable as they spend their time on Twitter and conventions. In his defense, he wasn't trying to belittle print comics and switch people over to digital. He's aware that the current model for print comics is going away because of the costs associated with doing business in today's market. He can write the best print comics of his career, it isn't going to fix the things that are killing the industry. He was trying to be open minded and embrace all the potential that digital comics can provide in the absence of print comics. I do think he's a smart guy. In his discussion, he was saying that comics need to be created for the digital format if they are going to be all digital. He was saying that publishers now are creating print comics and them formating them for digital. He said that it isn't utilizing the format efficiently. If publishers want to embrace digital, they need to create comics in landscape format and best utilize the advantages of the digital format. That's when he brought up that the eyes of a reader of a print comic will see both pages if the comic is open fully. I think he's right, but I still have no interest in digital comics. df1
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Post by G on Jan 10, 2014 11:19:17 GMT -5
Well in full context that makes a lot more sense but i guess it bothers me that the effort is focused on making digital better and not making print better although i do understand why that is for business purposes. Last night CBR post 2 XMen titles with a cover shot of each. 1 was a close up of Beast's face growling, the other was a close up of Magneto's helmet with blood on it and CBR asking which one are you looking forward to more? Couldnt tell a thing about either book but they wanted you to determine which ooked more exciting by comparing 2 head shots. i dont know why comics keeps realizing that print is dying when they are still using the Image cover system of drawing covers 6 months in advance with no relation to the story inside. I still think you could draw a cover using the old school Marvel way, keep your creators from talking about the story and the changes they made to characters, advertise with the cover shot ony and a small blurb like they used to, no variant covers, no mini series or arcs waiting to be turned into tpbs. Just an ongoing monthly with all the surprises not revealed unless you actually buy the damn thing and if you do a good job you generate organic buzz from within the book and by word of mouth instead of being told by media whats going to happen, be given a 4 page preview and both the writer and the artist bragging about all the changes they made 4 months before a book comes out. Stan Lee used to create so much hyperbole by taking 1 cover shot and talking about the book with such excitement and yet not give anything away about what happens in the book. During his day he was a great promoter. This isnt rocket science. Sales have dwindled for 20 years now and they still continue to use the same Image formula for the past 20 years and have gone completely away from the formula that worked. I dont know why they go around afraid to offend anyone, in any other business you drop your numbers the way comics have youre looking for a new job, not bragging about yourself on Twitter. They keep trying to reinvent the wheel with the same broke system. You and I could run comics be
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Post by G on Jan 10, 2014 11:30:33 GMT -5
better
Damn phone, I cannot make corrections on it once the post gets about 10 rows long. Its maddening.
Anyway we could run comics better instead of watching leaders make 7 figures and run the damn thing into the ground.
What other business is there where you lose 90% of your customers over a 20 year period and you get to keep your job and keep running it the same way?
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Post by G on Jan 10, 2014 11:45:09 GMT -5
I honestly think its because the golden carrot they chase after is movies and licsensing deals but it comes at the cost of making bad comics trying to be seen as movie vehicles. They have reverse engineered the process thinking those deals first when really all the movies and licensing came from comics that were well done comics first and foremost and the rewards came later for a job well done on the comics.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 10, 2014 20:09:49 GMT -5
Well in full context that makes a lot more sense but i guess it bothers me that the effort is focused on making digital better and not making print better although i do understand why that is for business purposes. Last night CBR post 2 XMen titles with a cover shot of each. 1 was a close up of Beast's face growling, the other was a close up of Magneto's helmet with blood on it and CBR asking which one are you looking forward to more? Couldnt tell a thing about either book but they wanted you to determine which ooked more exciting by comparing 2 head shots. i dont know why comics keeps realizing that print is dying when they are still using the Image cover system of drawing covers 6 months in advance with no relation to the story inside. I still think you could draw a cover using the old school Marvel way, keep your creators from talking about the story and the changes they made to characters, advertise with the cover shot ony and a small blurb like they used to, no variant covers, no mini series or arcs waiting to be turned into tpbs. Just an ongoing monthly with all the surprises not revealed unless you actually buy the damn thing and if you do a good job you generate organic buzz from within the book and by word of mouth instead of being told by media whats going to happen, be given a 4 page preview and both the writer and the artist bragging about all the changes they made 4 months before a book comes out. Stan Lee used to create so much hyperbole by taking 1 cover shot and talking about the book with such excitement and yet not give anything away about what happens in the book. During his day he was a great promoter. This isnt rocket science. Sales have dwindled for 20 years now and they still continue to use the same Image formula for the past 20 years and have gone completely away from the formula that worked. I dont know why they go around afraid to offend anyone, in any other business you drop your numbers the way comics have youre looking for a new job, not bragging about yourself on Twitter. They keep trying to reinvent the wheel with the same broke system. You and I could run comics be Do you know how my cartoon came to be? The local comic shop had it's register in the corner of the shop. One display case was on your left if you walked in the door. The other display case faced the back of the store. I'd sit on a stool outside the display case and just chat with the store manager about life... current events... whatever. If he got a phone call, I'd usually pick up a pen and draw something on the post-it note pad. If we'd been talking about big breasted female heroes, I might draw I might draw a stick woman with huge circles for breasts. Eventually I drew other heroes as stick figures. Giant man was only shown from the waist down. The manager also liked to list fake comic titles with the new releases to see if people were paying attention. He liked my suggestion to add "The Wooden Avenger" and we just started talking about it if it really existed. Eventually, the phone rang one day and I drew a cover of the Wooden Avenger standing in a proud pose. His cape flowing with a "W" nested over an "A" like a penis separating two sagging boobs. He loved it. We talked some more, so I drew the cover to #2 in a 70's stile with teasers and word balloons. By the end of the week I had about 5 mock covers drawn. When I looked back at them and we discussed my fake covers, it dawned upon me that I had just plotted out 5 stories. The cover setup the plot. It was just a matter of writing the transition to get you to the next cover. That was the story pages. My friend begged me to draw a comic. Since I was doodling at the register all of the time anyway, why not? So I bought all the wrong types of materials to use and started drawing story pages. I had fun doing it, but I was a very crappy artist. Some of my crappier art pages are more fun to read. Dilbert cartoons looked like they were drawn by Michelangelo compared to my art. Despite that, everyone thought they were fun. Eventually, my friend talked me into drawing some cartoons for a magazine. He was writing a rant column. I decided to do it like Mary Worth with a story told in 24 cartoons. I decided to amp up the twisted humor so that one day it could be a teaser for a full comic and help it sell. Everything I did worked despite the fact I can't draw. Artists far more competent than me would say "I can draw, but I need someone else to write it. I'm jealous of your ability to write and draw." My jaw would drop. My point is that it all started with fake teaser covers and those covers actually plotting out a heroes continuity. You can plot an entire series with individual covers. I think that's how DC produced comics in the 60's. I think the editor said "I want an giant ape hanging from the top of the daily planet" and told the writer to go write a story about it. I really believe that. df1
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