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Post by defiant1 on Jan 31, 2014 7:59:12 GMT -5
"Style over substance" pretty much defines it. For the Avengers movie, it helped hiring Joss Whedon because he cared about the characters and he comes from a family of writers. I've been saying all along that when Marvel starts running out of classic storylines for the movies and has to tap the modern plots, the box office sales will take a dive.
df1
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AC
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Post by AC on Jan 31, 2014 13:02:49 GMT -5
"Style over substance" pretty much defines it. For the Avengers movie, it helped hiring Joss Whedon because he cared about the characters and he comes from a family of writers. I've been saying all along that when Marvel starts running out of classic storylines for the movies and has to tap the modern plots, the box office sales will take a dive. df1 Whedon may care about the characters, but I think he has a bit of difficulty writing separate voices for them. Granted, I haven't seen the Avengers movie, so I may be speaking out of my ass here... but I read his Astonishing X-Men run, and while the stories were decent (though, an exercise in water-treading for much of it)... EVERY character was a sarcastic sassy twat.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 31, 2014 20:17:45 GMT -5
"Style over substance" pretty much defines it. For the Avengers movie, it helped hiring Joss Whedon because he cared about the characters and he comes from a family of writers. I've been saying all along that when Marvel starts running out of classic storylines for the movies and has to tap the modern plots, the box office sales will take a dive. df1 Whedon may care about the characters, but I think he has a bit of difficulty writing separate voices for them. Granted, I haven't seen the Avengers movie, so I may be speaking out of my ass here... but I read his Astonishing X-Men run, and while the stories were decent (though, an exercise in water-treading for much of it)... EVERY character was a sarcastic sassy twat. I think the actors were deep enough into their characters that they definitely had their own voice in the movie. My biggest criticism of Peter David's writing was that all the character Peter David wrote had his sarcastic sense of humor. RDJ is the poorest representation of a Marvel character (Tony Stark), yet it's still entertaining. df1
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Post by G on Feb 4, 2014 1:08:00 GMT -5
It feels as though, lately at least... the editors and "powers that be" aren't really brought up in comics. The assistants/associate editors seem to be more interested in social media than actually reading/guiding/fact-checking the books they're responsible for. I don't need cutesy "tweets" from editors blowing sunshine up a creator's ass, with no regard whether or not the story they submitted fits. They're, wittingly or not, creating these "monsters" (for lack of a more appropriate term). It would be nice to have a Jim Shooter or Mark Gruenwald around... a continuity cop (or two... or three)... someone with respect for the characters, and the past... Today it's more "We're in charge... and this is what we're going to do, whether you like it or not. DEAL WITH IT." Usually with much more sass and snark, though. The qualification quandary speaks even further toward negative effects the Internet has had on the industry... it seems like, at least a sub sect of the industry is pandering toward 'net fans. "Quirky" art, that has no business being in superhero comics suddenly is... to look "indie" or have some sort of "cred". This way editors can seem as though they have their fingers on the pulse of fandom. Style over substance. It does feels like a sub-culture is being created that does pander to a crowd of social networking users. It feels like something that has nothing to do with comics and more to do with the crowd that wants to say "Look at Me!". It's hard for me to put a finger on it. Applications and News threads I used to appreciate such as CBR and Newsarama, etc. They no longer seem like carriers of news and they seem more like disease spreaders creating candy coated news clips that says rah-rah about any and everything. There is no one slinging Negative News. There is no legitimate coverage of what is really going on. No one really reporting the true dirt and smashing creators for miss deadlines and shoddy work as well as weak sales. All of it is like a big smiley face and calling crap great over and over. It's disgusting and it even further dilutes my appreciation for comics. But I guess what further irritates me is how the creators just all stand fast and don't say a negative thing about anything. Sure, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, but back in the day comics had a self policing system. If something was wrong creators stood up and said so. Now they all stand idly by and look ready to ride dry hump the leg of the comic system as it exists today. You'd expect someone somewhere to make a stink and call shit...shit. It doesn't happen. No one wants to break rank. Be a revolutionist and create something new and exciting. Everyone just riding on the same freak show of mediocre at best product all hoping to be the next movie, tv show or viral frenzy for showing social acceptance for some cause that used to have nothing to do with comics at all. The more I see of it, the more I just get disgusted and want to wave a middle finger towards a hobby I once loved. It doesn't represent anything I used to love. It just feels like some advertising agency disguised as a comic company. The only thing missing from Comics today is characters holding Coca-Colas on the covers. It's gotten THAT bad.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 8, 2014 14:34:23 GMT -5
It feels as though, lately at least... the editors and "powers that be" aren't really brought up in comics. The assistants/associate editors seem to be more interested in social media than actually reading/guiding/fact-checking the books they're responsible for. I don't need cutesy "tweets" from editors blowing sunshine up a creator's ass, with no regard whether or not the story they submitted fits. They're, wittingly or not, creating these "monsters" (for lack of a more appropriate term). It would be nice to have a Jim Shooter or Mark Gruenwald around... a continuity cop (or two... or three)... someone with respect for the characters, and the past... Today it's more "We're in charge... and this is what we're going to do, whether you like it or not. DEAL WITH IT." Usually with much more sass and snark, though. The qualification quandary speaks even further toward negative effects the Internet has had on the industry... it seems like, at least a sub sect of the industry is pandering toward 'net fans. "Quirky" art, that has no business being in superhero comics suddenly is... to look "indie" or have some sort of "cred". This way editors can seem as though they have their fingers on the pulse of fandom. Style over substance. It does feels like a sub-culture is being created that does pander to a crowd of social networking users. It feels like something that has nothing to do with comics and more to do with the crowd that wants to say "Look at Me!". It's hard for me to put a finger on it. Applications and News threads I used to appreciate such as CBR and Newsarama, etc. They no longer seem like carriers of news and they seem more like disease spreaders creating candy coated news clips that says rah-rah about any and everything. There is no one slinging Negative News. There is no legitimate coverage of what is really going on. No one really reporting the true dirt and smashing creators for miss deadlines and shoddy work as well as weak sales. All of it is like a big smiley face and calling crap great over and over. It's disgusting and it even further dilutes my appreciation for comics. But I guess what further irritates me is how the creators just all stand fast and don't say a negative thing about anything. Sure, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, but back in the day comics had a self policing system. If something was wrong creators stood up and said so. Now they all stand idly by and look ready to ride dry hump the leg of the comic system as it exists today. You'd expect someone somewhere to make a stink and call shit...shit. It doesn't happen. No one wants to break rank. Be a revolutionist and create something new and exciting. Everyone just riding on the same freak show of mediocre at best product all hoping to be the next movie, tv show or viral frenzy for showing social acceptance for some cause that used to have nothing to do with comics at all. The more I see of it, the more I just get disgusted and want to wave a middle finger towards a hobby I once loved. It doesn't represent anything I used to love. It just feels like some advertising agency disguised as a comic company. The only thing missing from Comics today is characters holding Coca-Colas on the covers. It's gotten THAT bad. There aren't enough fans left for anyone to demand improvements or back a creator if he speaks out. These people just want to stay employed. df1
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AC
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Post by AC on Feb 12, 2014 22:55:23 GMT -5
Re: CBR and Newsarama... these have been more detrimental to the fandom than Wizard ever was. They must be aware that we're an extremely niche group... and instead've evoking some sort of spirit of community, they (the content creators/writers) are almost as arrogant (and line-towing) as the comic creators/editors they feature.
CBR is too busy with their "Spinoff" site to really talk about comics... and when they DO discuss comics, they're only tickling the taint of whichever creator they're digging on. The blogs, "Comics Should Be Good" is batting about 500, their "Urban Legends" column has degraded into "Hey I bet you were wondering if Superman was supposed to be discolored in one panel in one issue in 1976... let's tell you why this happened". Robot6 is where I go when I want to find out what Fox News or some conservative group thinks about comics... that's all they seem to rail on.
Newsarama doesn't seem to know what's going on with the industry unless they can number it from one to ten.
The less said about their comments sections and forums the better...
Back to the creators... it feels like in a sitcom, when the nerd becomes hall monitor... this loser suddenly has power... power that most of the rest of the school could care less about, but (s)he's going to ensure (s)he makes everyone aware. The power they wield is about as mighty as a flaccid member, but they still fear losing it... so they carry on, towing the line and circling the wagons.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 12, 2014 23:18:10 GMT -5
The way I see it, we are doing the industry a favor. We are speaking out about what we dislike online. The majority of people just quit collecting, sell their comics off at a huge loss and never speak out again. Jusy about everyone that I knew as a comics buying regular in the 90's has abandoned the hobby. Even those that hung out another 10 years have abandoned the hobby. Sad, but the industry is too stupid to see what they are doing wrong.
df1
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AC
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Post by AC on Feb 12, 2014 23:38:39 GMT -5
The way I see it, we are doing the industry a favor. We are speaking out about what we dislike online. The majority of people just quit collecting, sell their comics off at a huge loss and never speak out again. Jusy about everyone that I knew as a comics buying regular in the 90's has abandoned the hobby. Even those that hung out another 10 years have abandoned the hobby. Sad, but the industry is too stupid to see what they are doing wrong. df1 This is a forum I enjoy going to and taking part in, as it has a self-awareness and isn't trying to "reach out" to "superstar creators". I feel like I can actually express dislike (or even at times spew hatred) over the current product without fear of repercussion from dyed in the wool fans trying to (for whatever reason) curry favor with the creators or even the creators themselves. It's sad that our numbers are dwindling like they are... the industry seems to see what's on the horizon, and it's a cliff... and instead've pulling off to ask directions... they're slamming on the gas to get there faster.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 13, 2014 1:48:11 GMT -5
The industry has been left to creators that have no business sense mixed with a few business people that have no sense how the creation process works. No one cares about nurturing a readership. It's all about what gimmick created a spike on the sales chart last month.
I've conversed with quite a few creators. They listen when I complain, but I think many of the veterans agree with me. The others write me off as outdated.
On the surface it looks like they are hitting the gas peddle. In reality they have stepped into quicksand and rather than look for outside help, they squirm around and sink deeper in the same situation they've gotten themselves into. It will smother their careers eventually.
The writing is on the wall. I believe failure is inevitable. I also believe necessity is the mother of invention. Whenever you assume a company will fail, that's when they get the most creative and prolong the misery.
DC moving to California will be an expensive transition for a division that isn't pulling in a lot of profit. I suspect it may end up being the coffin nails for their publishing business. Unless they license it out, I'm thinking it may cause severe damages to the whole comics industry.
Marvel is killing Dark Horse. Hiring Whedon and pulling the Star Wars license takes away all of the profitable titles Dark Horse publishes. I think IDW and Dynamite are just breaking even. Image being creator owned is nothing more than an imprint. The creators need a movie deal to really do more.
I think the price increases were to save Diamond who has been struggling for a decade. Geppi's net worth has dropped severely. If DC ceases publication, it's unlikely that stores or Diamond will have enough titles a month to sustain them. Some stores say they are doing well, but all the stores need to be doing well or the whole distribution chain could collapse. The next few years are going to be interesting.
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Post by G on Feb 14, 2014 13:57:35 GMT -5
I have no interest in throwing praise at comics, creators or comic companies. Ive seen too many other boards that rah-rah everything and to me that is boring. Not that I wouldnt welcome a creator here and give him respect. I would be more than interested in their perspective. Just not gonna gush all over myself trying to act like a fanboy. I think far too many are ego maniacs as it is. Also I would praise good work when i seen it, I just havent seen much in a long time.
To me, comics is driving its own clown car right off the cliff. There seems to be a huge good ole boy network which drove the car to the cliff. They may even realize they are in trouble bit they arent going to admit it to anyone. Al companies do damage control but sometimes it is in their best interests to admit shortcomings and back track and make corrections. Someone either blows a whistle or stands up and says we gotta go back to what used to work.
In the arrogance that is comics today, the egos at the top refuse to admit mistakes, take ownetship of the fact that they have lost over 90% of its paying readership over the last 20 years, and instead they all pat each other on the back and insist to us thay they know what they are doing and go forward continuing to do do the same things.
They have lost sight of what their forefathers learned during their previous 50 years of experience. Deiiver solid stories with dynsmic storytelling art, using a continous episode chronological order. Develop characters and drop bird seeds for future events keeping readers coming back to see what happens next. Give the reader plenty to read with numerous fast paced scened, not stretch out one or two scenes per issue to barely move the story slong. Make every issue a jumping on point. No mini series or displaced story arcs and mega event crossovet which do more to confuse than answer questions. Give comics insight covers which gives a glimpse of what can be expected inside and entices readerd to buy. Have cliffhangerd at the end of each issue. Make them want to come back. Dont spoil or tell the outcome beforehand and ask them whatthey think. Keep it a secret and surprise readers after they buy it. Dont rape characters with radical overhauls, gender bemding, ethnicity changes, sexual preferences and have obviously biased polical issues that represent the mood of the author. Have divetsr artistic bbut obviously talented story telling abilities, whether that be penciling, inking, or coloring. Dont be cookie cutter sndtrapped in trends. Have principals. Stand for something. Impose deadlines. Have backup stories in the csn or send help where needed. Dont make excuses. Appreciate what happened before. Dont degrade collections by having multiple cover with impossibe ratios and prices. Dont create negative buzz words like backstory and jumping on points. Mske ever issue a piece of the continuing story. Keep it simple to jump off, come back and easy to see where we are now.
I dont think this is rocket science. Fans have dropped out because of high prices and disgust while continually seeing their favorite characters raped, overexposed and watered down. They arent in favor of what they see so they leave, never to come back. To be honest, weve outgrown the foolishness, not ourlove for the hobby or the characters.
No one is making a stand, speaking out or going back to what used to work for over half a century. Weve lost respect for the companies and the creators.
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