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Post by comickings on Jun 29, 2008 20:41:34 GMT -5
Here's the link to the site....www.comicartfans.com.... www.comicartfans.com/ Yeah,Mark's prices are up there. But look at it this way. All original art is 1 of a kind. If he's got something you want,you have to get it from him one way or another. Him,along with alot of the top art dealers put crazy prices on their stuff,hoping they can get somebody that's interested in it.They all would rather trade you their pieces for your pieces as they really make out that way. He's always wheeling & dealing stuff,and his inventory changes quite often,so somebody out there is going for his prices. He may be using those prices as bargaining bait. He can price them whatever he wants. At some point it starts looking like extortion. Thev prelim piece by Alex Ross is especially unnerving. Alex Ross could be pumping those out in his basement saying "yep, I found another prelim piece". I bought a Mike Mayhew cover prelim & a Frank Brunner cover prelim and there is no way I'd have paid premium art prices. Whether the connection is valid to the printed piece is just assumed. Not only that it's not fully rendered with details. You are buying a subpar Ross piece and he's charging you more than if it was a lesser known published piece. that's just wrong in my opinion. Wrong for me anyway. I wouldn't buy anything from the guy unless he had better stuff at better prices. To each their own. Not knocking his business model if it's working. It just doesn't work on me. cfs I don't think I have ever seen anything on Marks site that I thought was a good deal.At the time anyway.Some of the prices he was telling us of what some of those pieces were worth,I couldn't believe.He really does feel the pieces are worth what he thinks they are.And it's not only the stuff he has that he is trying to sell. When he bought the splash page to FF #51 10 years ago,or whenever,the auction estimate that it was in,was like $6-$7,000 that it would go for.He paid $13K for it. People thought he was crazy. He just knew how important that piece was.He sold it last year..$80K in trade &...& $50K cash!!...He bought a piece of Alex Ross Superman Peace on Earth...I think he paid $15 or $18K for that...which was $5K over the estimate at the time...within 2 years he sold it for $55K...he knows what he's doing... Maybe the stuff isn't worth what he's trying to get right now,but one day it will be...he's just a few years ahead of schedule!
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Post by cfs on Jun 29, 2008 23:00:38 GMT -5
I would call that extortion. It's no different than saying "I've got your kids, if you want them, meet my price"
Trade dollars are hard to estimate. If I acquire a piece of art for $100 and someone estimates it at $5,000 a decade later then you can't honestly say it's a $5,000 piece in trade.
It used to be that all the values for the high dollar books like Action #1 were based upon trades. Dealers weren't shelling out $80,000 cash. They were leveraging a lot of smaller and possibly more rare books that they'd picked up cheaper. The books were valued more, but that isn't a cash amount someone had paid.
If he's selling the art for what you say, then it just proves what I've said all along. A high end dealer's customer list is the most valuable thing they own. It's another reason I roll my eyes when I see retailers slaving over quarter books.
cfs
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Post by comickings on Jun 30, 2008 21:46:32 GMT -5
I would call that extortion. It's no different than saying "I've got your kids, if you want them, meet my price" Trade dollars are hard to estimate. If I acquire a piece of art for $100 and someone estimates it at $5,000 a decade later then you can't honestly say it's a $5,000 piece in trade. It used to be that all the values for the high dollar books like Action #1 were based upon trades. Dealers weren't shelling out $80,000 cash. They were leveraging a lot of smaller and possibly more rare books that they'd picked up cheaper. The books were valued more, but that isn't a cash amount someone had paid. If he's selling the art for what you say, then it just proves what I've said all along. A high end dealer's customer list is the most valuable thing they own. It's another reason I roll my eyes when I see retailers slaving over quarter books. cfs How is this extortion?? This is a business.He didn't draw the piece himself.He bought it with his own money from somebody that named their price. Now he is naming his price. He's not putting a gun to anybody's head and making them pay what he's asking.If you think it's too high,then that's too bad for you or whoever is interested in it. Is the dealer that's asking $40 Million,or whatever for a Picasso original,an extortionist?I think his art sucks,and the prices his art goes for is stupid.But that's just me.Obviously there are alot of guys that like him more than I do and are willing to pay retarded money to get his stuff.There's no difference in Picasso,to Kirby,to Dan DeCarlo...there are buyers at all levels.And there are cheap ass buyers at all levels that complain something is too expensive...be it $40 mil or $40. Trade dollars aren't that hard to determine what something is really worth.If the guy sold a piece for $50K cash and $80K trade...then it's atleast a $100K piece. The buyer would rather give up way more in trade than all that cash. The dealer still has to move all that trade.He should be able to get atleast 50-60% cash value for all that trade stuff he just got,if he just tried to blow it out quick.But he's probably gonna get more than $80K if he works it over time.
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Post by comickings on Jun 30, 2008 22:09:08 GMT -5
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Post by cfs on Jun 30, 2008 22:34:41 GMT -5
Third listing under the definition of extortion -- "An excessive or exorbitant charge".
A lot of those pieces are cool, but they are not making a global impact on the art community. Picasso appeals to fine art connoisseurs. I'm not a fan of his work, but a middle run Silver Surfer page isn't anywhere close to having that stature. Maybe if they put some comic art on display in the Lueve I'll reevaluate the Archie pages I own.
I should take my rough Olivia watercolor sketch and put $20,000 on it. P.T. Barnum was right.
Whatever. It's his art. I'm probably the only one who smiles when I hear about Ditko setting his coffee cup on his art pages. That'd be my grail. A piece of published art that Ditko drew and cared so little about that there was a coffee cup stain on it.
cfs
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Post by G on May 28, 2009 13:01:01 GMT -5
Hmmm....Sometimes I wish this discussion continued in a non-abusive way. Anyway......
Anyone planning on attending Charlotte's Heroes Con this year? Last year pretty much blew chunks, but I kind of feel like the law of averages dictates that it's not going to be that bad every year.
I'm in absolutely no position to go, but I may try and convince my wife to go anyway. We don't have to spend much and it will be enjoyable for the both of us to get away. So....maybe......just maybe.....
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Post by azbatx on May 29, 2009 15:09:13 GMT -5
I can't do it this year. I am low on money. I have my eyes set on Baltimore though.
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Post by G on Jun 2, 2009 20:38:37 GMT -5
It's looking like I may possibly go to this....
I've talked to the wife about it and she seems open to the idea. Her only drawback (besides lack of money) is the drive. But, I can drive it no problem both ways if necessary.
I'm not expecting anything big out of this. My expectations are totally low. But that's not the point. The point is I haven't purchased a single comic since November, nor have I been around any besides my own. So it will just feel good to be around the hobby I have deprived myself from being around, again.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 2, 2009 21:14:44 GMT -5
It's looking like I may possibly go to this.... I've talked to the wife about it and she seems open to the idea. Her only drawback (besides lack of money) is the drive. But, I can drive it no problem both ways if necessary. I'm not expecting anything big out of this. My expectations are totally low. But that's not the point. The point is I haven't purchased a single comic since November, nor have I been around any besides my own. So it will just feel good to be around the hobby I have deprived myself from being around, again. I'm thinking about going, but I think the guest list is horrible and I HATE the drive. Like you, I have low expectations. Defiant1
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Post by G on Jun 17, 2009 21:01:03 GMT -5
Looks like I'm going to go to the show on Friday. The wife wants to go and Friday seems to be the best day for us. I'll try and post what I thought about the show as soon as I get back either late Friday evening or early Saturday morning. After not purchasing a comic in 8 months, I'm really looking forward to this.
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