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Post by cyberstrike on Oct 6, 2009 8:12:25 GMT -5
Rant
Starting with Heroes Reborn Marvel Comics have canceled and restarted several of their long running titles Captain America, The Avengers, The Invincible Iron Man, The Fantastic Four, The Amazing Spider-Man, The Incredible Hulk, Daredevil, and The Mighty Thor (it seems other than the The Uncanny X-Men that none of Marvel's titles that started in the Silver Age hasn't been canceled and restarted in the past few years) and while most if not all these restarts were done for very stupid reasons ("#1 is an easier sell than #467" ), the fact remains: these books were canceled and restarted with a new #1.
In the last few years however Marvel has been switching the numbering back to what the title would be at if the series had not been cancelled and restarted (and in some cases like Captain America which has more than once been restarted since Heroes Return) which I feel is very confusing to people like me who wanted to understand The Return of Captain America arc Does it begin with #50, #600, or Captain America Reborn #1 and what about #601 so is it Captain America #601 or #51?
I hate having to figuring out Marvel's screw ball numbering system and sometimes it feels like the big celebratory issues are nothing more than just glorified one-shots was it really necessary to revert the numbering of The Avengers back to #500 then to cancel the series again and start The New Avengers #1?
As much I as complain about DC and Dan DiBio at least they know how to count and when they cancel a series and restart it even if the reason is stupid they don't revert the numbering back to the orginal series (i.e. Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, JLA, and etc) and carry on from there as if nothing has happen.
Marvel if you cancel a series and restart no matter the reason or how long the series was gone before restart (case in point X Factor just got a revert) when vol. 1 is over it's done.
Finished.
Ended.
When you start a series over stick with the new numbering and stop switching the numbers around all you guys are doing are confusing fans and losing potential new or returning customers like me.
Rant over.
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Post by G on Oct 6, 2009 8:43:21 GMT -5
Good rant....
I'm pretty much a purist, I would never want them to stop with the original numbering. Look at Action Comics or Detective Comics. To me it's cool that a title can reach such a high number. It shows how successful its been. Also, when you attempt to collect such a title, you know you have a gargantuan task at hand. Not only is there an ungodly amount of issues to hunt down, you can also fully expect that the low numbered copies are in most cases going to be out of the average person's reach. Meaning just about ANY issues you have from the early ages are going to be something truly special to you.
Like you, I was mortified when Marvel decided to cancel their long running comics and restart at issue #1. It looks hard up to me for sales and no one thinks long term that eventually the new car smell will run out on those books too rather quickly.
Unlike you, I am glad they went back to the original numbering. I hate that there is a gap of undeserved confusion in there. But I think it was an attempt to right a wrong and restore the numbering of a title to where it would have been if nothing ever changed. Yes, I personally could do without the confusion. But I find if 1 volume gets big and so does a 2nd volume, I'm going to make a choice on which volume I want to collect and totally ignore the others ones. Case in point, the Flash. I'm fine how they did it. They stopped and restarted again in like the late 80s. I believe that became Volume 3. What became desirable to me is Volume 2. The run that lasted from the 1960s to the 1980s. Those are generally affordable (except the absolute earliest issues) and have the significance I want in going after them. I do have a few issues of volume 3. But when you renumber and start over like that, you can almost expect that hardly anything in the modern numbering will be worth anything. Therefore, I have ignored collecting them unless I get some in dumpster dives. Volume 1 I would love to collect if I was Joe Millionaire and everyone knows Im not. So Volume 2 is the one for me.
So yes, I like the way DC did it. The titles they did it to and start over with #1 and remained faithful to their numbering system were mostly tired titles who had wore out its welcome in the 1st place and needed a good quick kick in the pants to get them jump started. Lets face it, no one was going to get excited about Green Lantern #383. Its had an endless run of mundane issues. A restart does a title like that some good.
The problem with Marvel is they were taking their most successful and highest followed titles and restarting when they shouldnt have. People DO care about Spiderman #488 a lot more than say Wonder Woman #471. Their are still a lot of loyal followers and collectors to those series. And restarting them was just plain wrong.
While I do agree that DC's way of restarting is right for books that wasn't very followed at the time of cancellation. I think for Marvel, bringing back the numbering to what it should have been was ultimately the right move. Now if they do something like that again. I think they will burn all their bridges (at least with me) and I'll just have to pick and choose which volumes I do and don't want to collect. It's much safer to say I will go after 1 huge volume than a whole bunch of split of volumes.
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 6, 2009 19:22:49 GMT -5
I posted about what morons they were when they canceled all their long running series. Thank God I flat out don't care anymore.
Defiant1
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Post by cyberstrike on Oct 7, 2009 18:04:51 GMT -5
Good rant.... I'm pretty much a purist, I would never want them to stop with the original numbering. Look at Action Comics or Detective Comics. To me it's cool that a title can reach such a high number. It shows how successful its been. Also, when you attempt to collect such a title, you know you have a gargantuan task at hand. Not only is there an ungodly amount of issues to hunt down, you can also fully expect that the low numbered copies are in most cases going to be out of the average person's reach. Meaning just about ANY issues you have from the early ages are going to be something truly special to you. Like you, I was mortified when Marvel decided to cancel their long running comics and restart at issue #1. It looks hard up to me for sales and no one thinks long term that eventually the new car smell will run out on those books too rather quickly. Unlike you, I am glad they went back to the original numbering. I hate that there is a gap of undeserved confusion in there. But I think it was an attempt to right a wrong and restore the numbering of a title to where it would have been if nothing ever changed. Yes, I personally could do without the confusion. But I find if 1 volume gets big and so does a 2nd volume, I'm going to make a choice on which volume I want to collect and totally ignore the others ones. Case in point, the Flash. I'm fine how they did it. They stopped and restarted again in like the late 80s. I believe that became Volume 3. What became desirable to me is Volume 2. The run that lasted from the 1960s to the 1980s. Those are generally affordable (except the absolute earliest issues) and have the significance I want in going after them. I do have a few issues of volume 3. But when you renumber and start over like that, you can almost expect that hardly anything in the modern numbering will be worth anything. Therefore, I have ignored collecting them unless I get some in dumpster dives. Volume 1 I would love to collect if I was Joe Millionaire and everyone knows Im not. So Volume 2 is the one for me. So yes, I like the way DC did it. The titles they did it to and start over with #1 and remained faithful to their numbering system were mostly tired titles who had wore out its welcome in the 1st place and needed a good quick kick in the pants to get them jump started. Lets face it, no one was going to get excited about Green Lantern #383. Its had an endless run of mundane issues. A restart does a title like that some good. The problem with Marvel is they were taking their most successful and highest followed titles and restarting when they shouldnt have. People DO care about Spiderman #488 a lot more than say Wonder Woman #471. Their are still a lot of loyal followers and collectors to those series. And restarting them was just plain wrong. While I do agree that DC's way of restarting is right for books that wasn't very followed at the time of cancellation. I think for Marvel, bringing back the numbering to what it should have been was ultimately the right move. Now if they do something like that again. I think they will burn all their bridges (at least with me) and I'll just have to pick and choose which volumes I do and don't want to collect. It's much safer to say I will go after 1 huge volume than a whole bunch of split of volumes. My problem with Marvel's reverting numbers back is that certian titles it makes no sense to revert the number back to volume 1 numbering cases like: The Mighty Avengers #500 what was the point of making a big deal about reverting number back to the volume one and continue on with #500 but that was the last issue! What was the whole point? |
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Post by G on Oct 8, 2009 10:55:31 GMT -5
I guess cause collectively it reached 500. A huge milestone in comics. But I would imagine that would include Journey into Mysteries too. I'm not saying it aint dumb. It would have been better if they never done it in the 1st place. Im just going back to the Heroes Reborn days and the numbering they did then and then later reverted back. I'd much rather see it go on in the original numbering than that being split up into individual volumes. Cause sooner or later, Im going to consider an entire volume worthless to me. So if you keep it 1 volume, if I was a long term fan, I might be more apt to go for all the issues. Guarantee if I was collecting 200 - 300 issues and they put out a new volume, I wouldn't care about the new volume. Id just keep working on my original collection and call it a day.
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Post by cyberstrike on Apr 28, 2010 9:06:48 GMT -5
Now Dynamite, IDW, and DC are following suit with Red Sonja #50, G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #155 1/2, and Wonder Woman #600 repectfully.
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Post by G on Apr 28, 2010 12:07:17 GMT -5
Now Dynamite, IDW, and DC are following suit with Red Sonja #50, G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #155 1/2, and Wonder Woman #600 repectfully. Was the G.I. Joe a continuation of the Marvel comic numbering? I think I seen that and was shocked when I did. Red Sonja actually restarted numbering with Dynamite?  Wonder Woman I half way understand, but I think it should stay with the volume (is it volume 3?  now) numbering and say something on the cover like "Special 600th issue of Wonder Woman in her own comics issue" and just stay with the actual number and volume they are on. If anybody is reading in order or collecting in order, its going to be hard to understand that Wonder Woman was on a random number (like #26) and the next issue is #600 and then the following issue was (like #28). In my example, It should have been something like #27 was a Special 600th issue of Wonder Woman. Some notation like that on the cover. I think I've seen them do it with Thor before at like #383 they did something like "Special 300th appearance of Thor" even though it was like Thor #383. That was doing it right in my opinion. I agree that the number systems and explanations have gotten out of hand. |
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Post by defiant1 on Apr 29, 2010 17:55:15 GMT -5
Some things you can't fix. the GI Joe move was probably a smart one. Not sure about the others.
df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Apr 30, 2010 14:08:55 GMT -5
Now Dynamite, IDW, and DC are following suit with Red Sonja #50, G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #155 1/2, and Wonder Woman #600 repectfully. Was the G.I. Joe a continuation of the Marvel comic numbering? I think I seen that and was shocked when I did. Red Sonja actually restarted numbering with Dynamite? Wonder Woman I half way understand, but I think it should stay with the volume (is it volume 3? now) numbering and say something on the cover like "Special 600th issue of Wonder Woman in her own comics issue" and just stay with the actual number and volume they are on. If anybody is reading in order or collecting in order, its going to be hard to understand that Wonder Woman was on a random number (like #26) and the next issue is #600 and then the following issue was (like #28). In my example, It should have been something like #27 was a Special 600th issue of Wonder Woman. Some notation like that on the cover. I think I've seen them do it with Thor before at like #383 they did something like "Special 300th appearance of Thor" even though it was like Thor #383. That was doing it right in my opinion. I agree that the number systems and explanations have gotten out of hand. From what I read DDP basically continued the Marvel continuity (with some retconing to sever the link to Transformers: Generation 2) when they picked up the license. The only reason I think is to let Larry Hamma do his version of X-Men Forever with G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero which is I will write the series as I want, not giving a damn about other creators, series, or changes that have been made. DC has stated that Wonder Woman #600 will be followed by #601, and so forth. It'll only be a matter of time for every other major DC series gets a "legacy renumbering" so chances are when titles like Justice League of America, Green Lantern, The Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, The Legion of Super-Heroes, The Teen Titans, and others reach a major milestone (#500, #600, etc) they will be renumbered. I think it's stupid. |
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Post by G on Apr 30, 2010 20:18:13 GMT -5
DC has stated that Wonder Woman #600 will be followed by #601, and so forth. It'll only be a matter of time for every other major DC series gets a "legacy renumbering" so chances are when titles like Justice League of America, Green Lantern, The Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, The Legion of Super-Heroes, The Teen Titans, and others reach a major milestone (#500, #600, etc) they will be renumbered. I think it's stupid. Yeah, I agree with you strongly on that. Doing things like that just dilutes all the volumes involved if you ask me. I can't remember exactly where the original series of Wonder Woman ended, but I know the 2nd series was around 228 or someplace close to that number. I don't remember the exact issue number, but I know it was close to something like that. And then you start over with another #1 and now we have yet another volume. So basically you have canceled 2 series already. And now your 3rd volume is probably somewhere around issue 40 or so and it suddenly jumps to 600 and will be followed with 601 and so forth. Furthermore, none of the previous volumes had an issue #599. So if you're tying it in to the previous count, you now have volumes jumping from like 228 to 600. It doesn't make sense. It dilutes all the volumes. I still think in a situation like this, whatever issue Wonder Woman was on at the 599th comic that should have upped the number by one and then have on the cover something like "Special 600th issue of Wonder Woman in comics!" and make it double sized or something special like that and then the next issue, just continue with the numbering. In other words, the is NO issue 600. Just an issue that says this would have been issue 600. I know previous to this, I said I was happy they returned books like Fantastic Four to original numbering and I am. But in my mind, there should have never been a stoppage of the original numbering in the 1st place. And speaking as someone who has probably more Fantastic Four's than any other title I own, I haven't never really bought hardly any issues of FF since they restarted at #1 like 14 years ago. I did get those first few issues, but once I stopped, I never picked back up and the numbering is a major reason I stopped. I simply made it a stopping point and only concerned myself with collecting the original volume. What came in other volumes failed to concern me. |
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now) numbering and say something on the cover like "Special 600th issue of Wonder Woman in her own comics issue" and just stay with the actual number and volume they are on. 
