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Post by G on Oct 9, 2009 12:33:13 GMT -5
2009 seemed to be another dull and lumbersome year of comics for the 1st half of the year. When I think about it, I cannot recall one major even from the 1st half of this year. Well, all that seemed to change at this year's SDCC. Whenever someone gets down to writing a historical year by year play by play, 2009 will stand out for one huge event that suddenly turned the comics world upside down.
Jim Shooter was announced as overseeing the new Dark Horse project starring former Valiant characters and revamped Gold Key properties! Suddenly the comics world was all aflutter and 1991 appeared to be reborn! Next thing you know.....
Disney bought Marvel? WTF??!!!!!
Marvel with 70 years of history and over 45 years in its current incarnation was immediately swallowed by Disney in 1 mind numbing day!
But that's not all, now we have VEI which has controlling interest in its own set of Valiant characters, suing Jim Shooter and claiming Jim was actually their Editor in Chief as recently as Spring of this year (curiously unannounced) and a certainly perk, namely a laptop computer was returned by Jim with files erased. Presumably the files Jim was preparing for their comeback to rule the Comics World.
Is it me, or is the story of Jim Shooter getting more interesting than actual comics themselves? Are the stars aligning for the Comics Apocalypse? With numbers down, companies folding and merging and now the amazing 20+ year soap opera that is Jim Shooter suddenly writing more chapters, is there any other story out that that can compete with him?
Furthermore, has comics lost so much faith in itself that now only Jim Shooter gives it a fighting chance anymore? Its almost seeming like there is no other player in comics who can command such attention and banter over all the forums and websites as Jim Shooter. It almost seems like Jim is the messiah and comics only hope.
Why I certainly see Jim's value and I love his abilities more than I love his creations themselves. I've come to wonder where everyone else in comics has gone these last 10 years? Is there anyone else that can command this kind of attention? Or furthermore, is there anyone else who can guide comics to a brighter future? Who are the major players here these days? And what are they doing? And even worse, where are they at? Why don't we hear from them? Are they not newsworthy? Or is there really no good ideas coming from them?
When I think about comics being great about 20-40 years ago. When I was living in it during that time, I never thought one person ruled the news. It seemed to be many more collective cogs in the machine that churned that created comics. And each piece made it run more smoothly. And Jim Shooter was just 1 of those cogs in that machine. But certainly his kept becoming a bigger piece of the machine.
Nowadays it seems comics are cannibalizing and playing sole survivor. And suddenly the once outcast and in limbo Jim Shooter has arose this year and became the story of comics and collectively everyone seems to be looking towards him as the main hope of comics. While Im unsure whether that is valid or not, I do wonder where is everyone else?
Is Jim Shooter comics only hope? Or are there others out there that can guide the ship to better seas?
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 10, 2009 6:20:31 GMT -5
2009 seemed to be another dull and lumbersome year of comics for the 1st half of the year. When I think about it, I cannot recall one major even from the 1st half of this year. Well, all that seemed to change at this year's SDCC. Whenever someone gets down to writing a historical year by year play by play, 2009 will stand out for one huge event that suddenly turned the comics world upside down. Jim Shooter was announced as overseeing the new Dark Horse project starring former Valiant characters and revamped Gold Key properties! Suddenly the comics world was all aflutter and 1991 appeared to be reborn! Next thing you know..... Disney bought Marvel? WTF??!!!!! Marvel with 70 years of history and over 45 years in its current incarnation was immediately swallowed by Disney in 1 mind numbing day! But that's not all, now we have VEI which has controlling interest in its own set of Valiant characters, suing Jim Shooter and claiming Jim was actually their Editor in Chief as recently as Spring of this year (curiously unannounced) and a certainly perk, namely a laptop computer was returned by Jim with files erased. Presumably the files Jim was preparing for their comeback to rule the Comics World. Is it me, or is the story of Jim Shooter getting more interesting than actual comics themselves? Are the stars aligning for the Comics Apocalypse? With numbers down, companies folding and merging and now the amazing 20+ year soap opera that is Jim Shooter suddenly writing more chapters, is there any other story out that that can compete with him? Furthermore, has comics lost so much faith in itself that now only Jim Shooter gives it a fighting chance anymore? Its almost seeming like there is no other player in comics who can command such attention and banter over all the forums and websites as Jim Shooter. It almost seems like Jim is the messiah and comics only hope. Why I certainly see Jim's value and I love his abilities more than I love his creations themselves. I've come to wonder where everyone else in comics has gone these last 10 years? Is there anyone else that can command this kind of attention? Or furthermore, is there anyone else who can guide comics to a brighter future? Who are the major players here these days? And what are they doing? And even worse, where are they at? Why don't we hear from them? Are they not newsworthy? Or is there really no good ideas coming from them? When I think about comics being great about 20-40 years ago. When I was living in it during that time, I never thought one person ruled the news. It seemed to be many more collective cogs in the machine that churned that created comics. And each piece made it run more smoothly. And Jim Shooter was just 1 of those cogs in that machine. But certainly his kept becoming a bigger piece of the machine. Nowadays it seems comics are cannibalizing and playing sole survivor. And suddenly the once outcast and in limbo Jim Shooter has arose this year and became the story of comics and collectively everyone seems to be looking towards him as the main hope of comics. While Im unsure whether that is valid or not, I do wonder where is everyone else? Is Jim Shooter comics only hope? Or are there others out there that can guide the ship to better seas? There are no true editors anymore insisting on basic quality control. As I've proven, anyone can draw pictures and put text balloons on them. There has to be a system for telling the artists "no" and makining them do it the way the writer/editor asks. df1 |
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Post by G on Oct 13, 2009 11:16:41 GMT -5
There are no true editors anymore insisting on basic quality control. As I've proven, anyone can draw pictures and put text balloons on them. There has to be a system for telling the artists "no" and makining them do it the way the writer/editor asks. Isn't that the basic downfall of comics as we know it in a nutshell? I remember reading stories back in the day that artists used to have to redraw pages because the editors didn't like the work artists were doing. I have original art with "paste ups" added over top of work to make changes to what was already there. Does that kind of stuff even happen anymore? |
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 13, 2009 19:16:47 GMT -5
There are no true editors anymore insisting on basic quality control. As I've proven, anyone can draw pictures and put text balloons on them. There has to be a system for telling the artists "no" and makining them do it the way the writer/editor asks. Isn't that the basic downfall of comics as we know it in a nutshell? I remember reading stories back in the day that artists used to have to redraw pages because the editors didn't like the work artists were doing. I have original art with "paste ups" added over top of work to make changes to what was already there. Does that kind of stuff even happen anymore? Nathan Massengill said Jim insisted on some pages being redone on the Legion issue he inked. They reworked the panel digitally so it didn't have to be redrawn. Jim wanted it clarified that the Legion rings were lifting some rocks and not the Legionaires themselves. That is a rather important clarification to make since not all superheroes are super strong. Dave Cockrum's widow and I were talking about some Defiant pages that had redrawn panels. She said "I don't know why he had to redraw them". I said, "Jim Shooter probably requested it." She got an indignant look on her face and agreed that was probably it. df1 |
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Post by G on Oct 14, 2009 12:18:00 GMT -5
Seems artists have become the stars, which they always were, but it used to be they seemed to be proud to be apart of a decent comic company and respected what they wanted done and did it. It almost seems comics revolve around artists now and not the story and the whole and the company itself.
Do editors even edit they way they did 20 years ago or have their roles been reduced to a small comparison of the old job?
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 15, 2009 2:35:30 GMT -5
I'm told artists pretty much run things. I saw one artist say he turned down a job drawing Punisher because the character was to be wearing prison garb in the story. He only wanted to draw Punisher in classic iconic poses. He was a good artist, but I'd never let him work for my company.
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Post by cyberstrike on Oct 15, 2009 9:56:54 GMT -5
I'm told artists pretty much run things. I saw one artist say he turned down a job drawing Punisher because the character was to be wearing prison garb in the story. He only wanted to draw Punisher in classic iconic poses. He was a good artist, but I'd never let him work for my company. Which brings us to another problem people who follow creators not characters. I generally don't read iconic characters unless there is a creative team that I like or a new direction that I find interesting. The longest run on Batman that I ever followed was 18 months Hush and the following 6 issue arc. The same with Superman, The Amazing Spider-Man, Aquaman, The Flash, Wonder Woman, Action Comics, Detective Comics, The X-Men, Daredevil and most other titles. In fact with the exceptions of Marvel's The Transformers #1-80, 90s versions of JLA #1-125 and Supergirl#1-80 (plus the various mini-series, annuals and specials) I can't think of a series that I followed becaused of the characters and not the creators that lasted longer than 50 issues. |
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Post by G on Oct 15, 2009 10:18:15 GMT -5
You just gave me an idea for a future thread, thanks.
I guess I'm coming back full circle with this thread, is Jim Shooter the last hope for the way we knew things? Is he the bright hope of the future? Or really is Jim Shooter irrelevant to what happens to the future of comics? Although I see how it would be easy to say that Jim Shooter doesn't matter, I'd have to say that all signs seem to point to he DOES matter and he does make a difference to the comics world and what direction it is going. I just don't know how much.
Like we've discussed, it seems the old school way respected the company and the process. The writers, the editors, the overall story, the concept, the plot, the future of the story.
New school seems more individualistic. The here and now. Worry about tomorrow when we get there. Don't need to be concerned with writers and editors. I can do it all on my own.
Whereas back in the day artists drew and writers wrote with some exceptions, today it seems like artists think they can write as well. And while a few actually can, it appears many cannot.
I used to have an artist friend who drew comics and drew them well. The problem was, he thought he was a writer too. I almost feel like all artists think they are writers sometimes. I think they think it is easy since they are already creative. But far too often, the artist I knew couldn't think past the next issue, nor the next page. The big picture escaped him. It was only that one comic and that moment that mattered. Whereas, I think real writers can see far into the future and far out wide as well encompassing many facets, artists seem to be a lot more narrow to me.
I sometimes wonder if that is what is happening with today's artist/writers? They might be able to write a comic, but writing an ongoing story and universe seems to be another matter altogether and one I personally think should be left to the professionals.
You don't see very many writers who draw and there is a reason for that.
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 16, 2009 21:33:32 GMT -5
I'm told artists pretty much run things. I saw one artist say he turned down a job drawing Punisher because the character was to be wearing prison garb in the story. He only wanted to draw Punisher in classic iconic poses. He was a good artist, but I'd never let him work for my company. Which brings us to another problem people who follow creators not characters. I generally don't read iconic characters unless there is a creative team that I like or a new direction that I find interesting. The longest run on Batman that I ever followed was 18 months Hush and the following 6 issue arc. The same with Superman, The Amazing Spider-Man, Aquaman, The Flash, Wonder Woman, Action Comics, Detective Comics, The X-Men, Daredevil and most other titles. In fact with the exceptions of Marvel's The Transformers #1-80, 90s versions of JLA #1-125 and Supergirl#1-80 (plus the various mini-series, annuals and specials) I can't think of a series that I followed becaused of the characters and not the creators that lasted longer than 50 issues. It's a trend that I think is sad. After Broadway shut down, I pretty much went to indy titles. Cavewoman, Strangehaven, Strangers In Paradise, Optic Nerve, etc. That was the only way to get a consistent product with a stable creative team. Lee/Kirby for 100 issues of the Fantastic Four. That's the kind of consistency I like. |
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Post by defiant1 on Oct 16, 2009 21:46:12 GMT -5
You just gave me an idea for a future thread, thanks. I guess I'm coming back full circle with this thread, is Jim Shooter the last hope for the way we knew things? Is he the bright hope of the future? Or really is Jim Shooter irrelevant to what happens to the future of comics? Although I see how it would be easy to say that Jim Shooter doesn't matter, I'd have to say that all signs seem to point to he DOES matter and he does make a difference to the comics world and what direction it is going. I just don't know how much. Like we've discussed, it seems the old school way respected the company and the process. The writers, the editors, the overall story, the concept, the plot, the future of the story. New school seems more individualistic. The here and now. Worry about tomorrow when we get there. Don't need to be concerned with writers and editors. I can do it all on my own. Whereas back in the day artists drew and writers wrote with some exceptions, today it seems like artists think they can write as well. And while a few actually can, it appears many cannot. I used to have an artist friend who drew comics and drew them well. The problem was, he thought he was a writer too. I almost feel like all artists think they are writers sometimes. I think they think it is easy since they are already creative. But far too often, the artist I knew couldn't think past the next issue, nor the next page. The big picture escaped him. It was only that one comic and that moment that mattered. Whereas, I think real writers can see far into the future and far out wide as well encompassing many facets, artists seem to be a lot more narrow to me. I sometimes wonder if that is what is happening with today's artist/writers? They might be able to write a comic, but writing an ongoing story and universe seems to be another matter altogether and one I personally think should be left to the professionals. You don't see very many writers who draw and there is a reason for that. When my cartoon was being published, I'd have much better artists than me tell me they wished they could write. I wrote as I went with my stuff because I can't draw. If I was unable to draw a scene, I had to rewrite it. It happened quite often. I think most artists grew up reading comics and just aren't deeply educated. I think it's true of a lot of writers these days. I don't see people smart enough to write intelligent sci-fi. Sci-fi on TV these days is lame drama with science buzzwords tossed in. Defiant1 |
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