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Post by defiant1 on Dec 21, 2009 1:06:00 GMT -5
I think you are looking at this with a skewed perspective, If all the regulars on my board are ecstatic about Dark Horse releasing these titles, you're talking about 8 people. If all the regular on Greg's board buy this, you are talking 20 to 200 at most. The Valiant we liked quit publishing in 1993. That's 16 years ago. There are thousands of people buying comics that have no memory of these books and no desire to learn anything about them. The minority is quite vocal, but we are still a very small number. Drop in the investcomics board and they haven't so much as mentioned these books. I posted info on the CPG board and only 1 person responded at all. I bet you could drop by a dozen boards other than the ones where you like to post and all you'll get is an "oh" from the other board members. I think Buffy sells around 40,000 copies and most of that is because Buffy fans existed before the comic was even made. Star Wars has a much larger fan base yet Buffy outsells their Star Wars stuff. The real problem about reaching order levels is that so many stores have closed. If you have 5500 stores and they all order 10 copies to really push it, then you have sales of 55,000 issues. If you only have 3000 stores then you only get orders of 30,000. The local comic shop that closed in Tucker was only selling something like 28 copies a month of their best selling titles before they closed. They had steady volume, but they weren't going to order 100 of anything. Somebody who is only buying Spiderman or Spawn is not going to care about Magnus. Somebody who is only loyal to Marvel or DC is not going to think anything about Magnus. There are huge percentages of the customer base who will not buy this under any circumstances. VEI was going to flop no matter how much they pushed Shooter's writing. At least with Jim going to Dark Horse, Dark Horse is a company people trust. For this book to sell well, it has to lure people back like me that were not buying any new comics at all. That's a slower process than just placing an ad in Previews. If these books are selling 20,000 copes in 4 months, I'd be very pleased. It's unlikely that Samson will. From an investment and resale point of view, I'd bank more on Dr. Spektor or Samson. They have the biggest shot at being a sleeper. The odds are against this universe lasting. It's going to have to lure die hard DC and Marvel fans.
Defiant1
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Post by G on Dec 21, 2009 7:25:24 GMT -5
I'm not trying to skew it, I'm trying to get thoughts on it. You're right that my views may be overly optimistic. Maybe yours is overly pessimistic. I like you analogy of comic store sales and order placing. Makes perfect sense, but I think the first few issues of Dark Horse Valiant will sell a little bit better than an average of 10 per store. It's true, its the old timers who remember and want to see it come back, but the new kids on the block at least have heard the hype. Certainly not all of them are going to try it, still there will be a small percentage that does. I'm sure that the closer we get to actual release, the more the hype machine will be rolling. I think we are only about 10,000 copies apart in our numbers really. I could see initial 1st issues reaching anywhere from 30,000 - 50,000. Once the 1st issues are done, I'm thinking common issues will fall into the 20,000 - 30,000 range for at least a couple of months. After that, it's anybodies guess. If they are hitting 20,000 after 6 months, it'll probably be healthy I guess. If the numbers are closer to 10-15,000....I think it's in real trouble. It probably won't be long after that that it's hitting 6,000 - 10,000 and imminent demise afterwords.
I guess I'm wondering if this Valiant project is done 1 year after it came out, will it have been worth it? Will it finally shut up the 500 - 1,000 maniacal rabid fans that the party is officially over and they can stop wishing for another comeback that will make their world complete? Will we finally be able to move on from it? Will this tarnish Jim Shooter?
Is it time to finally take his innovative approach to something else or is the signal that the comic apocalypse is officially upon us and there is nothing left but for publishers to eventually quit producing comics and call it quits?
Is this a gauge of just how far the comic market has come? If Valiant coming back doesn't give it a shot in the arm, what will?
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Post by defiant1 on Dec 21, 2009 10:11:54 GMT -5
I'm not trying to skew it, I'm trying to get thoughts on it. You're right that my views may be overly optimistic. Maybe yours is overly pessimistic. I like you analogy of comic store sales and order placing. Makes perfect sense, but I think the first few issues of Dark Horse Valiant will sell a little bit better than an average of 10 per store. It's true, its the old timers who remember and want to see it come back, but the new kids on the block at least have heard the hype. Certainly not all of them are going to try it, still there will be a small percentage that does. I'm sure that the closer we get to actual release, the more the hype machine will be rolling. I think we are only about 10,000 copies apart in our numbers really. I could see initial 1st issues reaching anywhere from 30,000 - 50,000. Once the 1st issues are done, I'm thinking common issues will fall into the 20,000 - 30,000 range for at least a couple of months. After that, it's anybodies guess. If they are hitting 20,000 after 6 months, it'll probably be healthy I guess. If the numbers are closer to 10-15,000....I think it's in real trouble. It probably won't be long after that that it's hitting 6,000 - 10,000 and imminent demise afterwords. I guess I'm wondering if this Valiant project is done 1 year after it came out, will it have been worth it? Will it finally shut up the 500 - 1,000 maniacal rabid fans that the party is officially over and they can stop wishing for another comeback that will make their world complete? Will we finally be able to move on from it? Will this tarnish Jim Shooter? Is it time to finally take his innovative approach to something else or is the signal that the comic apocalypse is officially upon us and there is nothing left but for publishers to eventually quit producing comics and call it quits? Is this a gauge of just how far the comic market has come? If Valiant coming back doesn't give it a shot in the arm, what will? If you go back to my first response in this thread you'll see my actual prediction: "I expect an initial surge (after FCBD) of orders approaching 40,000 if not 50,000. I expect a slowdown to around 20,000-25,000."Dark Horse is going to push other products with more profit potential. You can bet on that. That's another set of connections they already have established that VEI would have to start from scratch and make. Will it shut the fans up? Probably not. There were people like me all excited when U2K came out. Stores didn't support the project then because they'd all been burned in the 90's. The more vocal the minority are about Shooter, the less respect we get from shop owners. Shop owners think of us like the out of touch nutcase living in the past. The majority of their customers do not have an attention span to follow a Jim Shooter story nor the education level to know why it appeals to me. For many, science-fantasy is just as entertaining as real science fiction. I prefer something that attempts to resemble reality. Again though, where were Jim Shooter's fans on Legion? If they trusted his writing, they would have given that a chance. The failure of Legion didn't leave fans screaming in outrage. I think the biggest problem with Valiant fans is that they like their books going up in value. It outweighs any loyalty they have to Shooter's writing. VEI suing Jim has created a paradox to Valiant fans. If they back Dark Horse, they are saying bye-bye to the ever-increasing net worth of their Valiant books. Especially the post unity stuff. Defiant1
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Post by cyberstrike on Dec 28, 2009 11:07:09 GMT -5
Another question: who else is involved besides Jim Shooter?
Jim Shooter's name will only get DH so far so who is drawing Magnus, Dr. Solar, Turok, and Mighty Samson? I'm assuming that Shooter is writing all 4 titles at least at the start but if this works I think it's safe to assume that he will let other writers take over.
DF1 makes a good point for most comic book fans don't know much or care about these characters I never even heard of Mighty Samson until the Shooter/DH deal was announced, and while Jim Shooter has cult following it's not as big as I think a lot of his fans think. Shooter has been out of comics for a long time and his run on The Legion of Super-Heroes was partly a glorified nostalgia fest for fans of his work of the title way back in the day and while sales may have went up on the series after he took over they never went "best seller" and internet seemed at best oblivious to his run or didn't care much for it (some people cited Shooter's corny dialogue as a major problem) and the fact that Shooter was hired to a write a series to an ending not of his choice at #50 and he would have to set up a for a crossover event that would in essence make his work seem pointless and would possibly be officially wiped out of the DCU continuity is it any wonder he quit.
So yeah DH knows Jim Shooter will sell a few books but a guy like Joss Whedon will sell more books and do me it boils down back down to basic question I asked above: "Who else besides Jim Shooter is going to be involved?"
IMHO if DH wants these books to sell they need some other VERY high-profile creators because these books are going to be sold by the quality of the creators and not by fans of the characters due to fact that the numbers of the fans are very small or non-existent.
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Post by G on Dec 28, 2009 13:59:33 GMT -5
Jim Shooter's name will only get DH so far so who is drawing Magnus, Dr. Solar, Turok, and Mighty Samson? I'm assuming that Shooter is writing all 4 titles at least at the start but if this works I think it's safe to assume that he will let other writers take over. Although Jim Shooter is a major part of the question, he isn't exactly the only question here. Another big question is how well will the Valiant characters do given another chance? When this is combined with Jim Shooter, it makes it even more intriguing. Almost like this is the best chance the Valiant characters have had since about 1993. DF1 makes a good point for most comic book fans don't know much or care about these characters I never even heard of Mighty Samson until the Shooter/DH deal was announced, and while Jim Shooter has cult following it's not as big as I think a lot of his fans think. If you just started collecting the last 10-15 years, I doubt you'll care much about this except wondering what all the hype was about. If you've been collecting longer, then you know who Jim Shooter and Valiant characters are. If you're a serious long term collector, you'll know who the Mighty Samson is. I'm not so sure this is as much about Jim Shooter as it is about Valiant characters coming back like all the fanboys who loved them have been hoping for over the past 10 years. They were all gung-ho for VEI to take them to the promise land not that long ago and immediately jumped ship to the Jim Shooter/Dark Horse version once it came to light. Its more about Valiant characters. Jim Shooter just makes it seem more viable and more promising that a good product will be put out. With VEI, I doubt they could do as well with Valiant characters as Acclaim did. Their existence has been a lot more of a joke. Shooter has been out of comics for a long time and his run on The Legion of Super-Heroes was partly a glorified nostalgia fest for fans of his work of the title way back in the day and while sales may have went up on the series after he took over they never went "best seller" and internet seemed at best oblivious to his run or didn't care much for it (some people cited Shooter's corny dialogue as a major problem) and the fact that Shooter was hired to a write a series to an ending not of his choice at #50 and he would have to set up a for a crossover event that would in essence make his work seem pointless and would possibly be officially wiped out of the DCU continuity is it any wonder he quit. This post seems very much anti-Shooter. I wouldn't blame Shooter for Legion failing. First of all, I'd blame the hideous art for starters. I think Shooter fans are used to seeing his work with more competent non-manganized looking artists. Second, nobody really cared about Legion BEFORE Shooter took it over. Sure it was something he started on back in the 60s, but this was a title that was on life support when he came in. It was almost like Jim just did a job. He did improve the numbers a bit. But the book wasn't that great to begin with and probably with a better creative team and marketing, it could have been a bigger success. As it was, it was almost like DC gave him some work for old times sake. They didn't utilize his ability. Dark Horse at least sees the possibilities. Dark Horse respects what he is capable of and is willing to let him call the shots. If you had a company, are you gonna give Shooter a project he can bring the best out of or some lame 3rd string book that you hardly care if it survives or not? So yeah DH knows Jim Shooter will sell a few books but a guy like Joss Whedon will sell more books and do me it boils down back down to basic question I asked above: "Who else besides Jim Shooter is going to be involved?" IMHO if DH wants these books to sell they need some other VERY high-profile creators because these books are going to be sold by the quality of the creators and not by fans of the characters due to fact that the numbers of the fans are very small or non-existent. You know Jim Shooter can't do it alone. I'm curious how this is going to play out myself. If this is another bunch of books where everything is a pose, full of senseless fights with over-rated artists drawing fanned out group shots, then I think this will fall flat on its face. And still yet, I think most of the comic world wants something like that because they are so used to comics like that that they wouldn't know a good comic if they read it. I see this as a major benchmarking for the state of comics. I'm unsure if Jim will give us what old time fans want and expect. But if he does and it fails, I think it means comics are dead and we can just continue to throw out books like Image United from here on out and stop caring about characters and storylines anymore. And if he sticks with the status quo of what is currently out there, then I think it will alienate long time Shooter AND Valiant fans as a sell out to what is put out today. Personally, I could care less about Valiant. But the fact that Shooter is doing it has me wanting to see how this plays out. Because after 32 years of collecting, it almost feels like comics are done. I haven't seen a great project in about 15 years. Shooter is part of the old school era. I think he's one of the best bullets comics have left. Pairing him with arguably his greatest success and putting him in charge of it is going to be far more telling than putting him on Legion with a 2nd rate artist who would rather draw Manga.
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Post by cyberstrike on Dec 28, 2009 18:27:06 GMT -5
Jim Shooter's name will only get DH so far so who is drawing Magnus, Dr. Solar, Turok, and Mighty Samson? I'm assuming that Shooter is writing all 4 titles at least at the start but if this works I think it's safe to assume that he will let other writers take over. Although Jim Shooter is a major part of the question, he isn't exactly the only question here. Another big question is how well will the Valiant characters do given another chance? When this is combined with Jim Shooter, it makes it even more intriguing. Almost like this is the best chance the Valiant characters have had since about 1993. I asked a LCS if they would carry VEI's X-O Manowar hardcover they said no. Now granted that is not one of the GK3 and this is just one store but I have yet to see any of the VEI's hardcovers in a LCS. I started offically collecting comics in 1989 so yeah I don't know about Mighty Samason and other than Turok, Dr. Solar, Magnus, Captain Johner and I had heard about Dr. Spektor my knowledge on the GK super-heroes comes from Valiant or what I read about them online or elsewhere. There is a LOT of comics that I have never heard of and a LOT that I have heard of so what? I think fans of Jim Shooter are a small vocal group. The reason why I think fans are "switching sides" and joining DH is because of 2 factors: 1) The lawsuit between Shooter and VEI. 2) The fact that DH knows how to get comics out. VEI has only published 3 hardcovers and have made a lot of vague prominices of getting comics out. No, it's asking a question who else is involved in this deal besides Shooter who is drawing the books? Shooter's run on The Legion of Super-Heroes happened because then DC publisher Paul Levtiz asked if he were still wanted it. He was and he did. The book was basically doomed to fail reguardless because and Geoff Johns and Dan DiBio wanted to throw the LOSH into one of DC pointless crossover events (and rumors are that they had already planned it years ago) all Shooter was at best a fill-in until he got the series to #50 and DiBio could get rid of him by citing poor sales and Shooter's rep to give the book to Johns. As too your last question: I would put him on the book that best suits his strenghs as a writer. Plotting and character devolpment. So yeah DH knows Jim Shooter will sell a few books but a guy like Joss Whedon will sell more books and do me it boils down back down to basic question I asked above: "Who else besides Jim Shooter is going to be involved?" IMHO if DH wants these books to sell they need some other VERY high-profile creators because these books are going to be sold by the quality of the creators and not by fans of the characters due to fact that the numbers of the fans are very small or non-existent. What you would consider great I would most likely consider crap and what I would consider great you would most likely consider crap. I would take EJ Su, Guido Guilari, John Cassidey and Bryan Hitch over guys like Kirby and Dittko because their style appeals to me more than Kirby and Dittko ever has but that is because I've grown up shows like Transformers, Robotech, and Voltron as a kid so I have bias towards more realistic looking characters. I only follow 3 titles reguardless of creative teams and that are Transformers, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age and other than that I follow creators. I only read Batman, Superman, X-Men, The Legion and any other book when there is a creator or creative team that I like. While I don't think comics are done but if they are to survive then then they need to start appealing to kids of 2010 and not to the kids of both your and my generations.
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Post by defiant1 on Dec 28, 2009 18:31:42 GMT -5
Dennis Callero (sp?) is drawing the first book. He founded Atomic Paintbrush and colored for Broadway and Defiant towards the end.
Jim tends to train artists how to tell a story with pictures and they make names for themselves later. Jim does like to include a few legends when he revamps. He wanted Curt Swan Broadway. He got Ditko for Defiant. I expect Lapham to do something at some point. Janet Jackson is on the road in Texas right now and focusing on her t-shirt business prior to that. The only art she's mentioned working on was a Jet Dream piece. I think that was a commission though.
Defiant1
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Post by G on Dec 28, 2009 20:02:24 GMT -5
What you would consider great I would most likely consider crap and what I would consider great you would most likely consider crap. This is certainly a true statement. But I think this goes for just about anybody who has collected comics for many years. Very few people care for the same books. They may share similar admirations. But usually people hold steadfast to what they like and no one will change their minds. I would take EJ Su, Guido Guilari, John Cassidey and Bryan Hitch over guys like Kirby and Dittko because their style appeals to me more than Kirby and Dittko ever has but that is because I've grown up shows like Transformers, Robotech, and Voltron as a kid so I have bias towards more realistic looking characters. I only follow 3 titles reguardless of creative teams and that are Transformers, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age and other than that I follow creators. I only read Batman, Superman, X-Men, The Legion and any other book when there is a creator or creative team that I like. I grew up hating Ditko and Kirby and my admiration grew for them over time, especially as I started collecting older comics. There is more Ditko work I don't like than there is that I do. And Kirby's last 20 years of life, I find almost 90% undesirable. I appreciate them as greats for what they were and accomplished during their time, but they are NOT my favorite artists. I don't know if I have a favorite. But probably a good list of who I admire are found in these threads. But certainly not all. gowaltrip.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=creatorsCurrently, I don't buy or pay attention to much that is new. I probably consider myself a fan of Epting, Land and a few others. But not so many. I think I appreciate the craft better back in the day than I do today. Today there is talent that in many ways surpass the old days, but I don't think it is utilized many times to its potential. I think comics just aren't as good as they used to be. But the potential has never been greater. I keep waiting for something great again (which of course is my personal opinion of great and perhaps is shared by many others, but certainly not by all). I want to like new comics and when I get my life in a better situation, I'll be back to trying new comics in earnest again. I'll never give up hope and I'll keep my mind open to the possibilities. When I was buying new comics recently, I found I liked about 15 percent of what I bought. Which is probably more than I thought I would. While I don't think comics are done but if they are to survive then then they need to start appealing to kids of 2010 and not to the kids of both your and my generations. While I wholeheartedly agree with this, I seriously doubt they ever will. One thing I do like about this Shooter/Dark Horse/Valiant deal is it at least has people talking even before it comes out. And even if it doesn't seem like it, I appreciate your points of view on this subject. I will say I agree with you that Shooters supporting cast of creators will go a long ways towards whether this project succeeds or fails. I'm hoping the key people involved all realize that and make the moves to make this a real success. I'm optimistically hoping for the best.
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Post by defiant1 on Dec 29, 2009 13:06:32 GMT -5
Although Jim Shooter is a major part of the question, he isn't exactly the only question here. Another big question is how well will the Valiant characters do given another chance? When this is combined with Jim Shooter, it makes it even more intriguing. Almost like this is the best chance the Valiant characters have had since about 1993. I asked a LCS if they would carry VEI's X-O Manowar hardcover they said no. Now granted that is not one of the GK3 and this is just one store but I have yet to see any of the VEI's hardcovers in a LCS. Keep in mind that retailers in general don't separate Jim's writing at Valiant from the later stuff that did not have Jim's writing. The post-unity Valiant is still the Valiant that they watched produce crappy comics and fall flat on their face. In their mind, Valiant already had their shot and failed miserably. If I was a retailer, I wouldn't order a hell of a lot of reprint hardcovers. Where they screwed up is that they should have offered a premium package like leatherbound. In all honesty though, I believe they only published to secure the trademarks. Watch the expiration dates on the trademarks. When they let those lapse, it's over. VEI's floorplan of their offices looks like an oversized shoebox. www.bloomreg.com/Flyers/420%20Lexington/420%20LexingtonMasterFly.pdfWhere is any area to work? It's four offices, a receptionist, and a pantry. I think it's a safe bet that they flip businesses for a profit like Jason's web page online says. I think they screwed up and failed miserably with Valiant. My guess is that Dinesh felt as if his connections to the movie industry were going to give him an advantage for having a movie made. Either that or he thought the announcement would lure investors. They hired a big name marketing company to take their money and make them look bigger than they are. It was a failed bluff because people aren't stupid. People like Ratner were probably just taking their money and smiling. I started offically collecting comics in 1989 so yeah I don't know about Mighty Samason and other than Turok, Dr. Solar, Magnus, Captain Johner and I had heard about Dr. Spektor my knowledge on the GK super-heroes comes from Valiant or what I read about them online or elsewhere. There is a LOT of comics that I have never heard of and a LOT that I have heard of so what? A good creator or writer can take a crappy concept and make it work. The movie District 9 is a good example. The plot and ideas behind it were stupid as hell, but it was well done. It looked like it was really happening. There was no bigger Valiant fan than me in 1992. When I attended Dark Adventure Con and Valiant hinted they might be releasing another Gold Key character, I immediately took the hints and bought up key Dr. Spektor books. I liked it and felt it had a lot of potential. There was even a Solar crossover in one issue. Later I realized that Jim being gone, the stories were going to hell. They didn't release Dr. Spektor. They changed it around and created the stupid-ass Dr. Mirage with some dipshit running around like a phantom in a ski outfit. I never was a Gold Key fan. I think the stories are childish and goofy. That's how I felt when I was a child, so my opinion hasn't gotten worse. It's exactly the same. Regardless, I think Jim has proven he can make them interesting once and I think he'll do it again. And yes, some of Jim's dialogue is corny and forced. We'll just have to see. I wasn't wild about the corny stuff at Defiant where Flex walks into a friend's house and immediately lifts the sofa over her head. It was illogical. There's a Good Guy's issue where the dad lets a kid into his house so they can talk. He zips out the back without telling the kid and flies around the neighborhood looking for his daughter. A few pages later he's back having the conversation with the kid like nothing happened. I think Legion got Jim's feet wet again. We'll see how he works with Dark Horse's resources behind him. I think fans of Jim Shooter are a small vocal group. The reason why I think fans are "switching sides" and joining DH is because of 2 factors: 1) The lawsuit between Shooter and VEI. 2) The fact that DH knows how to get comics out. VEI has only published 3 hardcovers and have made a lot of vague promises of getting comics out. A VEI owner denied even being involved with the company in an email right after the auction. I think his character has been established in my eyes and I would not put my trust in anything they say. Actions speak louder than words. No, it's asking a question who else is involved in this deal besides Shooter who is drawing the books? Shooter's run on The Legion of Super-Heroes happened because then DC publisher Paul Levtiz asked if he were still wanted it. He was and he did. The book was basically doomed to fail reguardless because and Geoff Johns and Dan DiBio wanted to throw the LOSH into one of DC pointless crossover events (and rumors are that they had already planned it years ago) all Shooter was at best a fill-in until he got the series to #50 and DiBio could get rid of him by citing poor sales and Shooter's rep to give the book to Johns. Interesting perspective. I'll never buy another new book from them under this management. Stupid move if they wanted my dollars. What you would consider great I would most likely consider crap and what I would consider great you would most likely consider crap. There are still fundamentals that have to do with effective storytelling. Manapul drew all his characters alike. Same hair and facial expressions. The images didn't even match the script. The difference between a lavish palace and a desolate one was throw pillows and the lights being turned on.... WTF? I would take EJ Su, Guido Guilari, John Cassidey and Bryan Hitch over guys like Kirby and Dittko because their style appeals to me more than Kirby and Dittko ever has but that is because I've grown up shows like Transformers, Robotech, and Voltron as a kid so I have bias towards more realistic looking characters. I only follow 3 titles reguardless of creative teams and that are Transformers, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age and other than that I follow creators. I only read Batman, Superman, X-Men, The Legion and any other book when there is a creator or creative team that I like. While I don't think comics are done but if they are to survive then then they need to start appealing to kids of 2010 and not to the kids of both your and my generations. Modern comics are utilizing better artists with a more realistic look and you pay for it. Expectations are higher and so are prices. Ultimately, most modern artists out there can draw, but they can't tell a story with art. The talent has been lost over the years. Most writers got their education from comic books so they can't tell a college level story anyway. It's possible to write a college level story and still appeal to kids. A good story is a good story. Too much 'shock and awe' approach to writing these days with nothing inbetween. Defiant1
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Post by cyberstrike on Dec 31, 2009 9:38:01 GMT -5
I asked a LCS if they would carry VEI's X-O Manowar hardcover they said no. Now granted that is not one of the GK3 and this is just one store but I have yet to see any of the VEI's hardcovers in a LCS. Keep in mind that retailers in general don't separate Jim's writing at Valiant from the later stuff that did not have Jim's writing. The post-unity Valiant is still the Valiant that they watched produce crappy comics and fall flat on their face. In their mind, Valiant already had their shot and failed miserably. If I was a retailer, I wouldn't order a hell of a lot of reprint hardcovers. Where they screwed up is that they should have offered a premium package like leatherbound. In all honesty though, I believe they only published to secure the trademarks. Watch the expiration dates on the trademarks. When they let those lapse, it's over. VEI's floorplan of their offices looks like an oversized shoebox. www.bloomreg.com/Flyers/420%20Lexington/420%20LexingtonMasterFly.pdfWhere is any area to work? It's four offices, a receptionist, and a pantry. I think it's a safe bet that they flip businesses for a profit like Jason's web page online says. I think they screwed up and failed miserably with Valiant. My guess is that Dinesh felt as if his connections to the movie industry were going to give him an advantage for having a movie made. Either that or he thought the announcement would lure investors. They hired a big name marketing company to take their money and make them look bigger than they are. It was a failed bluff because people aren't stupid. People like Ratner were probably just taking their money and smiling. I've read that some store owners lost a LOT of money due to Valiant (in some cases 6-7 figures) regardless of who was running the company (most likely the assholes that forced Shooter out) and figure that since Shooter started the company he's partially to blame, never mind the fact that Bob Layton and Steve Mariskey (or whatever his damn name was) were the two running the show and are to blame for over-printing Valiant and running it into the ground. I agree that a good creator can take a crappy concept make it work. Look at Peter David's run Aquaman he turned a character that had been a joke for decades and turned him into a bigger bad ass than Batman. The second he left the book it took a nose dive and no one has written Aquaman a tenth as good as Peter David. My fear is that Shooter's fans are setting their expectations way to high and they will be disappointed by it. I was a big fan of Simon Furman's work on Transformers but Furman's writing on the various IDW's Transformers mini-series and one-shots has been a bitter disappointment to me. I hope that you and other Jim Shooter fans aren't setting both yourself and Shooter for a fall. We agree. That's what I've been doing. I won't buy a comic, TPB, or HC from DC, Vertigo, Wildstorm, and any other imprint from them until DiBio is gone unless I'm 100% that not one penny will go back to DC Entertainment. The day that DC fires Dan DiBio and gets someone who knows what the fuck they're doing the company will improve drastically.
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