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Post by defiant1 on Jun 23, 2010 11:08:02 GMT -5
Agreed, but fans want McFarlane and he would like Spawn to be relevant. Spawn has always been able to be relevant with other artists drawing him. Image United seems more about ego than delivering a solid book. A major part of the problem. Fans let Image get away with it nearly 20 years ago when it was never a problem before and now it's just considered a normal part of comics. Sometimes I think fans should be ashamed of themselves. We allowed this to happen. Do you really expect McFarlane to say "I'm too busy?" Well he certainly is saying it AFTER the fact. The funniest part to me is Robb Liefeld is saying Image United is an embarrassment. That to me is hilarious! Well, I've been ashamed for the fans even if they aren't ashamed of themselves. Again, I'll say it is low standards and low expectations. Imagine if really good artists took as long as McFarlane takes. You'd get a masterpiece. I don't even like his art. He draws cartoon faces on characters and draws characters in contorted positions that are completely impossible. df1
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Post by G on Jun 23, 2010 13:02:18 GMT -5
If fans thought that the Image founders could ever do a six-issue mini-series on time then they're just plain stupid. I mean these are the same guys that couldn't get a 100 page graphic novel out for the company's 10th Anniversary, if fans believe their shit, then the fans are stupid. It's always made me wonder about their success. We've had better companies with better stories, art and track record and not make it and yet they live on with fans waiting with baited breath on delayed schedules and inferior product. It's amazing how well they've done.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 23, 2010 14:53:55 GMT -5
If fans thought that the Image founders could ever do a six-issue mini-series on time then they're just plain stupid. I mean these are the same guys that couldn't get a 100 page graphic novel out for the company's 10th Anniversary, if fans believe their shit, then the fans are stupid. It's always made me wonder about their success. We've had better companies with better stories, art and track record and not make it and yet they live on with fans waiting with baited breath on delayed schedules and inferior product. It's amazing how well they've done. Because the Image Founders for better or worse are my generation's comic book "masters". The sad truth is that back in 90s believe it or not there were kids and teens buying comics and these guys were our masters. Guys like Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Stan Lee, Gene Colan, John Romita Sr., and others weren't representing us (and most weren't around for long periods). Even guys like Jim Starlin, John Byrne, Neal Adams, Chris Claremont, Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Denny O'Neil, and Walt Simonson seemed behind the times. Simply put comics were boring when I got into comics big time in 1989. The Image Founders knowingly (or unknowingly) tapped into the youth of the 90s and became "The Rock Stars of Comics" and thus became my generations "comic book masters" which means they got a huge fan base that will follow their and support their careers. Much like what Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and the rest did in the 60s with Marvel, Image was a shot in the arm to a comic book industry dominated by Marvel and DC which back then were as bland and generic to kids and teens of the 90s as milk, the Image Founders were the guys that represented our generation. Every generation has went through this and in the 90s it was the Image Founders in particular Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, and Rob Liefeld. While Silvertri, Larson, and Valentino were all top talents at the time, even they acknowledged that Image at the start was basically Jim, Rob, and Todd's show. Now fast forward almost 20 years (has it been that long?) some of us kids and teens of the 90s are now adults and we want the creators that represented our youth to become that kid again even if it's for a few minutes and return to time when things were simple and we had fewer problems. Then there those like me who wish McFarlane and Liefeld would leave comics and never return ever. But then again without Image we might not have ever see John Cassaday, Bryan Hitch, Warren Ellis, or Mark Millar get their rise to superstar status so you take the good with the bad I guess.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 23, 2010 16:48:13 GMT -5
I think people bought into the hype in the 90's. Some people stuck around and found real substance within comics, many didn't. I think it's a misplaced ambition to expect the Image artists to ever produce anything relevant again. They were spoiled by success in the 90's and going backwards and putting their nose back to the grind every month will never appeal to them like it did. Once you sell a million copies of your work, selling 10,000 is like nothing.
df1
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Post by G on Jun 23, 2010 20:54:35 GMT -5
Because the Image Founders for better or worse are my generation's comic book "masters". The sad truth is that back in 90s believe it or not there were kids and teens buying comics and these guys were our masters. Guys like Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Stan Lee, Gene Colan, John Romita Sr., and others weren't representing us (and most weren't around for long periods). Even guys like Jim Starlin, John Byrne, Neal Adams, Chris Claremont, Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Denny O'Neil, and Walt Simonson seemed behind the times. Simply put comics were boring when I got into comics big time in 1989. The Image Founders knowingly (or unknowingly) tapped into the youth of the 90s and became "The Rock Stars of Comics" and thus became my generations "comic book masters" which means they got a huge fan base that will follow their and support their careers. Much like what Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and the rest did in the 60s with Marvel, Image was a shot in the arm to a comic book industry dominated by Marvel and DC which back then were as bland and generic to kids and teens of the 90s as milk, the Image Founders were the guys that represented our generation. Every generation has went through this and in the 90s it was the Image Founders in particular Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, and Rob Liefeld. While Silvertri, Larson, and Valentino were all top talents at the time, even they acknowledged that Image at the start was basically Jim, Rob, and Todd's show. Now fast forward almost 20 years (has it been that long?) some of us kids and teens of the 90s are now adults and we want the creators that represented our youth to become that kid again even if it's for a few minutes and return to time when things were simple and we had fewer problems. Then there those like me who wish McFarlane and Liefeld would leave comics and never return ever. But then again without Image we might not have ever see John Cassaday, Bryan Hitch, Warren Ellis, or Mark Millar get their rise to superstar status so you take the good with the bad I guess. I love your analogy of the Rock Stars of your generation and I get it and I understand it. And while they had some memorable books in terms of hype and launch and rock star media coverage. It almost seemed like Tiger Beat magazine getting the latest scoop and interviews on those big stars at Image as they put out million selling copies. The thing I don't remember though is great stories. All the greats from the past may have outlived their prime by that time, but the books they worked on have more memorable material. I don't remember hardly anything from Image after reading them. But certainly I remember a lot of stories from the other guys.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 24, 2010 8:59:24 GMT -5
Because the Image Founders for better or worse are my generation's comic book "masters". The sad truth is that back in 90s believe it or not there were kids and teens buying comics and these guys were our masters. Guys like Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Stan Lee, Gene Colan, John Romita Sr., and others weren't representing us (and most weren't around for long periods). Even guys like Jim Starlin, John Byrne, Neal Adams, Chris Claremont, Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Denny O'Neil, and Walt Simonson seemed behind the times. Simply put comics were boring when I got into comics big time in 1989. The Image Founders knowingly (or unknowingly) tapped into the youth of the 90s and became "The Rock Stars of Comics" and thus became my generations "comic book masters" which means they got a huge fan base that will follow their and support their careers. Much like what Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and the rest did in the 60s with Marvel, Image was a shot in the arm to a comic book industry dominated by Marvel and DC which back then were as bland and generic to kids and teens of the 90s as milk, the Image Founders were the guys that represented our generation. Every generation has went through this and in the 90s it was the Image Founders in particular Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, and Rob Liefeld. While Silvertri, Larson, and Valentino were all top talents at the time, even they acknowledged that Image at the start was basically Jim, Rob, and Todd's show. Now fast forward almost 20 years (has it been that long?) some of us kids and teens of the 90s are now adults and we want the creators that represented our youth to become that kid again even if it's for a few minutes and return to time when things were simple and we had fewer problems. Then there those like me who wish McFarlane and Liefeld would leave comics and never return ever. But then again without Image we might not have ever see John Cassaday, Bryan Hitch, Warren Ellis, or Mark Millar get their rise to superstar status so you take the good with the bad I guess. I love your analogy of the Rock Stars of your generation and I get it and I understand it. And while they had some memorable books in terms of hype and launch and rock star media coverage. It almost seemed like Tiger Beat magazine getting the latest scoop and interviews on those big stars at Image as they put out million selling copies. The thing I don't remember though is great stories. All the greats from the past may have outlived their prime by that time, but the books they worked on have more memorable material. I don't remember hardly anything from Image after reading them. But certainly I remember a lot of stories from the other guys. I can't recall much from the work they did at Image (other than the first two Shadowhawk mini-series which are still good reads and some bits and pieces of The Savage Dragon) but I do think that most of Liefeld and McFarlane's best work came before Image when they did New Mutants and X-Force and The Amazing Spider-Man and Spider-Man. I think Jim Lee's best work has been since he sold Wildstorm to DC with Batman: Hush, Superman: For Tomorrow, and All-Star Batman & Robin.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 24, 2010 9:06:42 GMT -5
I think people bought into the hype in the 90's. Some people stuck around and found real substance within comics, many didn't. I think it's a misplaced ambition to expect the Image artists to ever produce anything relevant again. They were spoiled by success in the 90's and going backwards and putting their nose back to the grind every month will never appeal to them like it did. Once you sell a million copies of your work, selling 10,000 is like nothing. df1 I think when working with a top notch writer Jim Lee has prodcued some really great work. True it's not going to sell a million copies, but his name will sell more books than some other creators.
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Post by bigw1966 on Jun 24, 2010 13:13:59 GMT -5
The Idea of Image United to me was a pretty cool one, having all of the Image founders minus Jim Lee working on every page of the book was genius. Having Todd do the Inking for everything to me was also good. I mean, I am not a huge fan of his pencils. I prefer Greg Capullo 7 days a week over him. But, I do think he is a solid inker.
I also know that as far as penciling goes, the mini series is nearly complete if not fully penciled by now.
todd just has to much going on between Spawn, The Haunt, his Toy company in which he is fully hands on with, and his continuing court room Drama with Neil Gaiman that has been in full swing again for the last 3 months at least and which todd HAS to be present for.
so in that sense he does have some legitimate obsticals.
That said, I wish they would have just done the entire series before getting involved with releasing any of it.
I have already cancelled this book from my limited pull list. I may consider buying a collected version if it ever gets to that point.
Maybe one of the other founders could take over on the inking so that it can get closer to the finish line.
Otherwise this can be chalked up to business as usual for Image.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 24, 2010 16:56:34 GMT -5
I think people bought into the hype in the 90's. Some people stuck around and found real substance within comics, many didn't. I think it's a misplaced ambition to expect the Image artists to ever produce anything relevant again. They were spoiled by success in the 90's and going backwards and putting their nose back to the grind every month will never appeal to them like it did. Once you sell a million copies of your work, selling 10,000 is like nothing. df1 I think when working with a top notch writer Jim Lee has prodcued some really great work. True it's not going to sell a million copies, but his name will sell more books than some other creators. Jim Lee was always one of the better artists, but I'd like to see him draw in a different style. The whole Image style of art is waste to me. Deodato drew that way for them and it was just plain sad compared to what he can do. His South American work prior to working here was stunning. df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 24, 2010 19:53:53 GMT -5
The Idea of Image United to me was a pretty cool one, having all of the Image founders minus Jim Lee working on every page of the book was genius. Having Todd do the Inking for everything to me was also good. I mean, I am not a huge fan of his pencils. I prefer Greg Capullo 7 days a week over him. But, I do think he is a solid inker. I also know that as far as penciling goes, the mini series is nearly complete if not fully penciled by now. todd just has to much going on between Spawn, The Haunt, his Toy company in which he is fully hands on with, and his continuing court room Drama with Neil Gaiman that has been in full swing again for the last 3 months at least and which todd HAS to be present for. so in that sense he does have some legitimate obsticals. That said, I wish they would have just done the entire series before getting involved with releasing any of it. I have already cancelled this book from my limited pull list. I may consider buying a collected version if it ever gets to that point. Maybe one of the other founders could take over on the inking so that it can get closer to the finish line. Otherwise this can be chalked up to business as usual for Image. No kidding McFarlane said that this was possibility due to his "complicated life" and he also said that he told Kirkman, Liefeld, Larson, Silversti, and Valentino that this was a possibility! What did the others do hold a gun to his head? I mean he should have said he would ink a cover or a pin up and that is it. I think most of it was his ego. I think some artists do this because they want the money of different projects and some of them do it because of ego and some times shit happens. I think the smart comic creator (this isn't limited just to artists; writers have this problem too like Waren Ellis) is the one know his/her limitations and tries not to take more projects than they can do. McFarlane should have said he was too busy and been done with it.
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