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Hulk
Apr 16, 2010 18:59:44 GMT -5
Post by G on Apr 16, 2010 18:59:44 GMT -5
I'm not gonna deny any one to feel the way the want to feel. To each their own. I'm not in love with the Silver Age. I think a lot of crap came out in the Silver Age just like any era. I'm just more of a purist. Hulk wasn't smart for 300 issues and then he became this whole new character. I understand why it appeals to other people and why they love the stories so much of the more adult version of the Hulk. But to me, its not the same character. You might as well draw another face on him and give him a new name. I think if writers felt limited to what they could do with dumb Hulk, then I guess that was just a weakness they had. Perhaps me not getting into the new smart Hulk is a weakness I have. I can't say I haven't tried. I've got tons of new Hulk material. I guess when I thumb through it, it just doesn't interest me enough. The visual isn't there for me any more. Hulk hasn't even come close to looking interesting to me since about Dale Keown, McFarlane, Bryne years. And even then my interest was waning. Maybe the stories were great after that. I'll admit, I just don't know. But visually, I didn't care enough to sit down and read them. It just wasn't doing anything for me anymore. Seeing the Hulk walking around like a normal human talking intelligent and so on felt kinda like Daredevil could see. Just not the same character. More or less, it felt like a new creation to me. I'm all for maturing characterizations, but this just felt too alien for someone who grew up with a raging maniacal Neanderthal Hulk.
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Hulk
Apr 17, 2010 9:35:25 GMT -5
Post by defiant1 on Apr 17, 2010 9:35:25 GMT -5
I'm not gonna deny any one to feel the way the want to feel. To each their own. I'm not in love with the Silver Age. I think a lot of crap came out in the Silver Age just like any era. I'm just more of a purist. Hulk wasn't smart for 300 issues and then he became this whole new character. I understand why it appeals to other people and why they love the stories so much of the more adult version of the Hulk. But to me, its not the same character. You might as well draw another face on him and give him a new name. I think if writers felt limited to what they could do with dumb Hulk, then I guess that was just a weakness they had. Perhaps me not getting into the new smart Hulk is a weakness I have. I can't say I haven't tried. I've got tons of new Hulk material. I guess when I thumb through it, it just doesn't interest me enough. The visual isn't there for me any more. Hulk hasn't even come close to looking interesting to me since about Dale Keown, McFarlane, Bryne years. And even then my interest was waning. Maybe the stories were great after that. I'll admit, I just don't know. But visually, I didn't care enough to sit down and read them. It just wasn't doing anything for me anymore. Seeing the Hulk walking around like a normal human talking intelligent and so on felt kinda like Daredevil could see. Just not the same character. More or less, it felt like a new creation to me. I'm all for maturing characterizations, but this just felt too alien for someone who grew up with a raging maniacal Neanderthal Hulk. You are entirely correct. It is not the same character. This is a byproduct of a writer's ego as well as a limitation on the writing ability some have. They want to shine by doing something different, so they have no respect for what made the character cool. The anger and impaired intelligence of the Hulk made him childlike. He was a problem solver as much as he was a problem creator. If you made him angry, he fixed what was making him angry and destroyed it. There were consequences for thinking you could get in his way or ignore his wishes. I think that mirrors how a lot of people feel and gives him a connection to the audience which is now lost. df1
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Hulk
Apr 18, 2010 12:48:54 GMT -5
Post by bigw1966 on Apr 18, 2010 12:48:54 GMT -5
smart hulk Is dumb? WTF?? Look, In the original 6 issue series, Of which I actually own Issue #3 The Hulk was not a mindless Idiot, He was smart, but he was more like a Longshoreman personality where he would make his decisions with his fists instead of talking it out. As time went on he would evolve in different ways. Sometimes he would become dumber, and sometimes smarter. It was all an exploration of Bruce Banner's ID. All of his repressed anger and the effects of his environment upon him.
I think P. David did a great thing by opening the character up to different exploration. considering how much he has been experimented on and how many attempts he has made to cure himself, he would have to experience changes.
Angry mindless Hulk would not have stood the test of time I think. It would have run out of steam and become like superman where people cannot relate to a character that can surmount any challenge.
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Hulk
Apr 18, 2010 20:40:37 GMT -5
Post by cyberstrike on Apr 18, 2010 20:40:37 GMT -5
I can't relate to mindless engine of destruction anymore than I can relate to a billionaire playboy who dress up as a bat or in a high-tech suit of armor and fights crime.
The Hulk is like Batman in that a short-lived TV series made the character into a bad joke and robed him of his potential, unlike Batman who got his potential unlocked in other medias as well as comics the Hulk only still seems to be a bad joke in other medias.
Other than the first six issues and #181 (the debut of Wolverine), name me a legendary run on the book or a classic story before PAD came along. I can't think of one other than those seven issues that I mentioned above.
I love comic character's history, but quite frankly The Incredible Hulk before PAD seems like a book that nobody gave a flying rat's ass fuck about and if Wolverine hadn't been popular I doubt the series would have lasted.
My problem is that stupid Hulk's stories were all the same.
Banner wonders into a small town, tries to cure himself, finds villains and/or the Army find him he turns into the Hulk , smashes the place up, Banner leaves.
Or
Banner attempts to cure himself and it's just about to work, when the villains or army shows up, or he finds out the price of the cure is another's life and Banner turns into the Hulk and smashes the place up and leaves.
That's it. Rinse and Repeat.
He had no real characterization other than that Banner was abused as a kid by his father and this was the source of the Hulk's rage (which to me sounds more like an excuse than a reason).
Intelligence makes the character unpredictable and I think a whole lot more scary, because he knows what he's doing. If they want me to buy any of the Hulk's books make him smart and vindictive, who is pissed off at the whole world.
I would enjoy a smart and ruthless Hulk, who is mad as hell and he will use his brain as well as his brawn to get his vengeance. That would be a real monster.
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Hulk
Apr 18, 2010 21:17:36 GMT -5
Post by defiant1 on Apr 18, 2010 21:17:36 GMT -5
I can't relate to mindless engine of destruction anymore than I can relate to a billionaire playboy who dress up as a bat or in a high-tech suit of armor and fights crime. The Hulk is like Batman in that a short-lived TV series made the character into a bad joke and robed him of his potential, unlike Batman who got his potential unlocked in other medias as well as comics the Hulk only still seems to be a bad joke in other medias. Other than the first six issues and #181 (the debut of Wolverine), name me a legendary run on the book or a classic story before PAD came along. I can't think of one other than those seven issues that I mentioned above. I love comic character's history, but quite frankly The Incredible Hulk before PAD seems like a book that nobody gave a flying rat's ass fuck about and if Wolverine hadn't been popular I doubt the series would have lasted. My problem is that stupid Hulk's stories were all the same. Banner wonders into a small town, tries to cure himself, finds villains and/or the Army find him he turns into the Hulk , smashes the place up, Banner leaves. Or Banner attempts to cure himself and it's just about to work, when the villains or army shows up, or he finds out the price of the cure is another's life and Banner turns into the Hulk and smashes the place up and leaves. That's it. Rinse and Repeat. He had no real characterization other than that Banner was abused as a kid by his father and this was the source of the Hulk's rage (which to me sounds more like an excuse than a reason). Intelligence makes the character unpredictable and I think a whole lot more scary, because he knows what he's doing. If they want me to buy any of the Hulk's books make him smart and vindictive, who is pissed off at the whole world. I would enjoy a smart and ruthless Hulk, who is mad as hell and he will use his brain as well as his brawn to get his vengeance. That would be a real monster. Hulk is a love story. Beauty and the beast. What I like about old comics is that they weren't some six issue flash in the pan turned into a TPB. Hulk evolved over a 15 year period and I liked every one I had read up until Bill Mantlo started writing. Again though, if you don't get it, that's fine. Marvel had two dozen other comics they were publishing. I didn't like Conan the Barbarian and I wasn't real wild about Master of Kung Fu. Hulk from the 70's was and is my favorite character. The most I've ever paid cash for a comic was my copy of Hulk #1. No regrets. Regardless, if they took Conan the Barbarian and changed him drastically, I'd consider them assholes and that's what PAD was allowed to do to Hulk. PAD can write, but quite often his work annoys the crap out of me because every character comes across as a wise cracking Spider-man but the jokes are all PAD's sense of humor. He is pathetic at giving characters their own unique personality. They all eventually have his personality. If you like PAD's Hulk.... just consider that the character could have been a new character with another name so fans like me weren't fucked in the process. I do not appreciate what Marvel allowed to happen to Hulk. They lost sales from me and I'd guess a few others. I haven't bought a new issue of Hulk in 10 years and sorry... a red Hulk for a son is about as lame an idea as I can imagine. I still say that leaving Hulk out of Civil War was a pussy way out. Marvel doesn't publish comics about heroes anymore. They publish comics about losers. df1
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Hulk
Apr 18, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
Post by defiant1 on Apr 18, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
Dumb Hulk was one of the most plausible characters Marvel ever had. All he wanted was to be left alone. He wasn't donning spandex with some altruistic goal of saving the world. The villain was Betty's father.
Defiant1
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Hulk
Apr 18, 2010 22:24:08 GMT -5
Post by G on Apr 18, 2010 22:24:08 GMT -5
Dumb Hulk was one of the most plausible characters Marvel ever had. All he wanted was to be left alone. He wasn't donning spandex with some altruistic goal of saving the world. The villain was Betty's father. Defiant1 That was pretty much it. He didn't go around looking for trouble. He actually wanted very much to have friends and people to care about. If anyone threatened that, he did whatever he had to do to keep it safe. I always thought that human part of the Hulk is what made him easy to relate to. Seeing him combing his hair and crying at weddings while wearing a tux just never seemed right to me. It just started looking silly on a monthly basis.
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Hulk
Apr 20, 2010 14:42:51 GMT -5
Post by cyberstrike on Apr 20, 2010 14:42:51 GMT -5
I can't relate to mindless engine of destruction anymore than I can relate to a billionaire playboy who dress up as a bat or in a high-tech suit of armor and fights crime. The Hulk is like Batman in that a short-lived TV series made the character into a bad joke and robed him of his potential, unlike Batman who got his potential unlocked in other medias as well as comics the Hulk only still seems to be a bad joke in other medias. Other than the first six issues and #181 (the debut of Wolverine), name me a legendary run on the book or a classic story before PAD came along. I can't think of one other than those seven issues that I mentioned above. I love comic character's history, but quite frankly The Incredible Hulk before PAD seems like a book that nobody gave a flying rat's ass fuck about and if Wolverine hadn't been popular I doubt the series would have lasted. My problem is that stupid Hulk's stories were all the same. Banner wonders into a small town, tries to cure himself, finds villains and/or the Army find him he turns into the Hulk , smashes the place up, Banner leaves. Or Banner attempts to cure himself and it's just about to work, when the villains or army shows up, or he finds out the price of the cure is another's life and Banner turns into the Hulk and smashes the place up and leaves. That's it. Rinse and Repeat. He had no real characterization other than that Banner was abused as a kid by his father and this was the source of the Hulk's rage (which to me sounds more like an excuse than a reason). Intelligence makes the character unpredictable and I think a whole lot more scary, because he knows what he's doing. If they want me to buy any of the Hulk's books make him smart and vindictive, who is pissed off at the whole world. I would enjoy a smart and ruthless Hulk, who is mad as hell and he will use his brain as well as his brawn to get his vengeance. That would be a real monster. Hulk is a love story. Beauty and the beast. What I like about old comics is that they weren't some six issue flash in the pan turned into a TPB. Hulk evolved over a 15 year period and I liked every one I had read up until Bill Mantlo started writing. Again though, if you don't get it, that's fine. Marvel had two dozen other comics they were publishing. I didn't like Conan the Barbarian and I wasn't real wild about Master of Kung Fu. Hulk from the 70's was and is my favorite character. The most I've ever paid cash for a comic was my copy of Hulk #1. No regrets. Regardless, if they took Conan the Barbarian and changed him drastically, I'd consider them assholes and that's what PAD was allowed to do to Hulk. PAD can write, but quite often his work annoys the crap out of me because every character comes across as a wise cracking Spider-man but the jokes are all PAD's sense of humor. He is pathetic at giving characters their own unique personality. They all eventually have his personality. If you like PAD's Hulk.... just consider that the character could have been a new character with another name so fans like me weren't fucked in the process. I do not appreciate what Marvel allowed to happen to Hulk. They lost sales from me and I'd guess a few others. I haven't bought a new issue of Hulk in 10 years and sorry... a red Hulk for a son is about as lame an idea as I can imagine. I still say that leaving Hulk out of Civil War was a pussy way out. Marvel doesn't publish comics about heroes anymore. They publish comics about losers. df1 I've read more of PAD's work then any other writer save Alan Moore and he's constantaly surprised me by how good he when wrote without comdey (don't believe me read The Fallen Angel), and by the way the smart Hulk was meant to last. David wanted to remind people that the Hulk could actually think, and after a while he changed him back. I stopped caring about the Hulk after he left and have seen nothing about the current arcs and books to make me care.
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Hulk
Apr 20, 2010 18:13:31 GMT -5
Post by defiant1 on Apr 20, 2010 18:13:31 GMT -5
I've read more of PAD's work then any other writer save Alan Moore and he's constantaly surprised me by how good he when wrote without comdey (don't believe me read The Fallen Angel), and by the way the smart Hulk was meant to last. David wanted to remind people that the Hulk could actually think, and after a while he changed him back. I stopped caring about the Hulk after he left and have seen nothing about the current arcs and books to make me care. The best PAD Hulk story was Hercules/Hulk battle towards the end ofhis run. It was a special I believe and it had Deodato art. He wrote a dumb Hulk and it was 10x better. I think Marvel wanted him to write a dumb Hulk and that's why he left the book. PAD's humor bores me. As one who is constantly making people laugh around me, the mechanisms of humor need to be a tad more advanced for me than what PAD writes. I think he'd be a better writer if he dropped his sense of humor. df1
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