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Post by azbatx on Jun 19, 2010 15:00:06 GMT -5
Now I just have to say this, why in the hell should there be a word count requirement on a script. Sorry but that is just Ignorent. I agree with you.
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Post by G on Jun 19, 2010 15:17:19 GMT -5
I don't care what the word count is as long as it doesn't come out like Image United.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 19, 2010 20:41:37 GMT -5
@gw: I forgot to add, that I had read an article a while back that I think sited that same study with Spider-Man. I thik the worst part of that was in the 90's when panel design and epty flashy art became the order of the day, but I think also that as people learn the language of comics they start to require more from the artwork to help convey what the story is presenting, or the deeper parts of a character.Especially if a good writer is coupled with a really solid artist, like Brubaker is with his rotating artiss on Captain america. He is able to describe emotional beats, and through posture and lighting along with subtle movements of head and hand can have a character express everything that words used to. It removes the need for an inner monalogue all the time. Thats what I think at least. The late 80s and early 90s was one of the worst eras because it was the Todd McFarlane era with 3 panels per page and limited scripting. I'm all for less words if the art can tell the story and replace the need for it. But I think you're referring to the exception and not the norm. The norm seems to be less words and artists who can't really take up the dead air space and push the story along. Some can and when they can, fine. But its more often than not, the art is really just average and going with the less is more approach and the storytelling is subpar in itself, giving the mix a completely inferior quality compared to the past. In this day and age when so much is possible, its sad to see the shortcuts in craftsmanship. I'm not saying all comics do this. I still find good quality work out there and it is enjoyable. But far too often I read a comic and think "geez, I just got bamboozled". I think I'm really trying these days to give a lot of things a chance so I won't be a hypocrite but the level of disappointment compared to the past is so much higher these days. Even books I didn't particularly like in the past, I could typically tell a lot of work was put into them. Ten thousand words does NOT a story and neither does 10 panels make a story. It's often of how talented the creator or the writer and artist as a team is, if the writer and artist have done their jobs well, then in some places words are pointless at best and interfer with the story at worse. There several places in Joss Whedon and John Cassady's run on The Astonishing X-Men, are silent and it's actually better for it. If the writer is good, then s/he knows when to shut the fuck up and let the artist tell the story in pictures. As the old saying goes: one picture is worth a thousand words. Are there are artists that can't tell a story visually to save their life? FUCK YEAH! Are there are artist in the field today who can tell story visually FUCK YEAH! The trick is for the writer to know when to be quiet and the artist to let the writer speak.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 19, 2010 21:57:42 GMT -5
The late 80s and early 90s was one of the worst eras because it was the Todd McFarlane era with 3 panels per page and limited scripting. I'm all for less words if the art can tell the story and replace the need for it. But I think you're referring to the exception and not the norm. The norm seems to be less words and artists who can't really take up the dead air space and push the story along. Some can and when they can, fine. But its more often than not, the art is really just average and going with the less is more approach and the storytelling is subpar in itself, giving the mix a completely inferior quality compared to the past. In this day and age when so much is possible, its sad to see the shortcuts in craftsmanship. I'm not saying all comics do this. I still find good quality work out there and it is enjoyable. But far too often I read a comic and think "geez, I just got bamboozled". I think I'm really trying these days to give a lot of things a chance so I won't be a hypocrite but the level of disappointment compared to the past is so much higher these days. Even books I didn't particularly like in the past, I could typically tell a lot of work was put into them. Ten thousand words does NOT a story and neither does 10 panels make a story. It's often of how talented the creator or the writer and artist as a team is, if the writer and artist have done their jobs well, then in some places words are pointless at best and interfer with the story at worse. There several places in Joss Whedon and John Cassady's run on The Astonishing X-Men, are silent and it's actually better for it. If the writer is good, then s/he knows when to shut the fuck up and let the artist tell the story in pictures. As the old saying goes: one picture is worth a thousand words. Are there are artists that can't tell a story visually to save their life? FUCK YEAH! Are there are artist in the field today who can tell story visually FUCK YEAH! The trick is for the writer to know when to be quiet and the artist to let the writer speak. I agree with what you said, but even the Whedon AXM series was too quick of a read. The industry needs to be making good stories WITH words. Once they show they can fill a comic book and occupy a reader's time, the they can throw in a few pregnant or dramatic pauses. Currently, too many stories are doing this the entire book. df1
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 19, 2010 22:01:25 GMT -5
I don't care what the word count is as long as it doesn't come out like Image United. Exactly. There are some bronze Marvel books that have very juvenile & simplistic stories, but at least there was something to occupy your time. df1
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Post by G on Jun 20, 2010 9:55:18 GMT -5
I agree with what you said, but even the Whedon AXM series was too quick of a read. The industry needs to be making good stories WITH words. Once they show they can fill a comic book and occupy a reader's time, the they can throw in a few pregnant or dramatic pauses. Currently, too many stories are doing this the entire book. It's true, I don't think anyone has a problem with wordless pages that make sense. I just think there is a problem when a whole book goes by and you go "that's it" ?
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Post by bigw1966 on Jun 24, 2010 13:26:10 GMT -5
LOL Total agreement with the Image United staement.
I still feel a lot of it comes from the way books are written now. With the Idea that the story will be collected and the amount of Decompression this creates when presenting a story, Makes it even less possible for that 22-26 page single issue to have much meat to it.
another factor is the arbitrary 22 page format of Superhero books. and many others.
I guess from the publishing standpoint, 22 pages is the amount they can cite to justify a $4 price point for the amount of work involved in creating the issue.
One current book that I have been having fun with is Grant Morrisons -Return of Bruce Wayne.
the tale itself is very focused. Even for Morrison whom I know yuo all sometimes hate to death.
but the art has been solid. The cover design and approach has been very good and limited in the pose category. and overall the series has just been kind of fun.
Its the same with BATMAN and ROBIN. Its actually really cool to see Batman approached differently because Grayson is wearing the cowl.
It honestly feels like a new character and it has me thinking that between this and Captain America, that I would like to see more heroes replaced in the -Legacy- manner.
It could be the best way to bring some freshness back to the characters.
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Post by G on Apr 5, 2013 10:28:19 GMT -5
I seen this advertising being able to read a whole bunch of X-Men online for like 99 cents. Was this shot, which I've seen at least 10,000 times in the last 20 years supposed to get me excited and want to do it??? You know, people like this can draw but people like this cant DRAW.
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Post by defiant1 on Apr 5, 2013 23:42:18 GMT -5
I seen this advertising being able to read a whole bunch of X-Men online for like 99 cents. Was this shot, which I've seen at least 10,000 times in the last 20 years supposed to get me excited and want to do it??? You know, people like this can draw but people like this cant DRAW. "Hey everybody stand back so we can get a good shot of Cyclop's left leg being bigger than his right leg." df1
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