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Post by G on Nov 5, 2011 10:35:21 GMT -5
Thanks Tom. Did you check out the trailer? You're welcome. Now I expect you to post videos. Don't be like my 80 year old step dad who I show how to do something and then he waits 6 months to try it and he's forgotten how to do it and asking me again. Yeah, I watched the video. I just watched it again so I could respond to this. It looked the same way to me each time. The cartoon itself doesn't look too bad but the cheesy nonchalant attitude of the characters when they say things like "we did save the universe" or "The Avengers needs to be here to protect the universe" seems rather irritating to me. One thing I don't like about cartoons of this type is they dummy it up too much and act like all the characters crack wisecracks while fighting all the time. If they left the silliness out of it, I could enjoy it more. That's sort of what made the old Batman cartoons work. It was portrayed a lot more seriously. Otherwise, I'll go back to the feeling of I probably wouldn't watch it on my own but if I was at your house and up a level or two and you turned it on, I'd probably watch it with you and not hate it. Id enjoy it at the moment but wouldn't rush home to watch more of them.
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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 5, 2011 10:56:49 GMT -5
I see where you are coming from, but those quotes you stated were out of contest in the trailer itself. The characters do not do wisecracks. Tony has a few quips here and there, but that is only because they modeled him off of Robert Downey jr's portrayal of him since that is what people recognise. The rest of the characters however are exactly what you would expect from the comic books. Cap doesn't say Jokes or act out of character at all for example. Hank Pym doesn't really like being a Superhero and he is portrayed exactly like classic avengers comics.
Its availible on Netflix right now. Even though its not your thing, If you actually watched a few episodes to get a feel for the groove they are going for, I think you may be suprised that you enjoy yourself. I was ready to hate the hell out of this show when I first heard of it. Especially after that weak assed Avengers cartoon from the 90's but about 4 episodes into it, I was really starting to dig it. When I first started to watch it, I was not into the art style at all. But as the shows continued I noticed how smooth they were moving and it started to feel right to me.
Hell, the Young Justice show is pretty damn excellent also.
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Post by G on Nov 5, 2011 12:24:50 GMT -5
You obviously see it differently than I do. It's not so much that everything is a wisecrack but I can tell from the voices that it wouldn't be anything that would keep me interested very long. Like I said, I like the Batman style of voice work from back in the day better than this. This just falls a bit too far on the corny side for me. Maybe if I invested countless hours in it I would learn to ignore these things. I'm just not willing to invest that time.
I'm not saying its a bad cartoon, I just don't find myself interested in it.
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Post by defiant1 on Nov 5, 2011 19:51:57 GMT -5
I see where you are coming from, but those quotes you stated were out of contest in the trailer itself. The characters do not do wisecracks. Tony has a few quips here and there, but that is only because they modeled him off of Robert Downey jr's portrayal of him since that is what people recognise. The rest of the characters however are exactly what you would expect from the comic books. Cap doesn't say Jokes or act out of character at all for example. Hank Pym doesn't really like being a Superhero and he is portrayed exactly like classic avengers comics. Its availible on Netflix right now. Even though its not your thing, If you actually watched a few episodes to get a feel for the groove they are going for, I think you may be suprised that you enjoy yourself. I was ready to hate the hell out of this show when I first heard of it. Especially after that weak assed Avengers cartoon from the 90's but about 4 episodes into it, I was really starting to dig it. When I first started to watch it, I was not into the art style at all. But as the shows continued I noticed how smooth they were moving and it started to feel right to me. Hell, the Young Justice show is pretty damn excellent also. We simply have opposite tastes. I think the animation is horrible. That includes the style and transition of motion. I think the dialogue is cliché. This is everything I don't want in a Marvel cartoon. To me, it's right along the lines of Bruce Timm's art and I detest his style. I even prefer the crappy animation from Marvel in the 60's... df1
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Post by G on Nov 6, 2011 8:48:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure I would go to this extreme but I did enjoy that. That looks old enough and crappy enough to be the 1st series of cartoons Marvel ever put out. I love how they used real comic panels for the cartoon and just moved the mouths. I also enjoyed that it was more serious and retold the coming of Captain America from Avengers #4. I even watched the 2nd cartoon to get the ending of the story. It was cheesy as all get out and the voice acting was too serious and animation was hardly existent, but all in all, I enjoyed it.
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Post by bigw1966 on Nov 6, 2011 16:30:02 GMT -5
Well, since you have not taken the time to watch the show and are simply making assumptions about what it is like, I won't even go into what assumptions do.
The show is in no way corny, lighthearted or poorly written. I will say the same thing I said in regards to Walking Dead. Even when something is not of great interest to me, I will still take the time to give it a chance. If only for the simple reason of being able to talk about it in an ongoing conversation with others like this one. That way, if you decide its as you initially were guessing at, then you could point to specifics. But you cannot. The voice acting in this is just as good as the Batman show had, and actually has more malice from some of the characters. That was why I originally linked the Thor episode. It is EPIC. Its got more action than the movie, and it gives a solid portrayal of all of the Asgardian characters. Regarding Avengers, I do not like the Tony Stark actor. His voice annoys me. Cap is Perfect. Black Panther and Hank Pym are perfect. Hawkeye is simply great. They brought the avengers that we grew up with to video life as if it were a love letter. Great stuff. The way the characters interact and are continually developed is the strength of the show. Also, they brought cap to the present day very similar to the original avengers with a bit of the Ultimate version mixed together.
As for that cap cartoon. The best part of it is the Kirby art that they sorta animated to create it. And its not just cheesy, its cheesy dipped in cheese with a cheese topping. I own the DVD, but do not watch it anymore.
As for Bruce Timm, his art style was not as solid in the first couple of seasons of that show. It picked up however and continued to be a great fit for Superman and for all of the Justice League shows. I mean, I wish they could make them look as detailed as some anime cartoons look, but honestly those are like the cap cartoon. All still images with moving backgrounds more than actual animation like the shows I am talking about.
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Post by defiant1 on Nov 6, 2011 16:56:58 GMT -5
Well, since you have not taken the time to watch the show and are simply making assumptions about what it is like, I won't even go into what assumptions do. The show is in no way corny, lighthearted or poorly written. I will say the same thing I said in regards to Walking Dead. Even when something is not of great interest to me, I will still take the time to give it a chance. If only for the simple reason of being able to talk about it in an ongoing conversation with others like this one. That way, if you decide its as you initially were guessing at, then you could point to specifics. But you cannot. The voice acting in this is just as good as the Batman show had, and actually has more malice from some of the characters. That was why I originally linked the Thor episode. It is EPIC. Its got more action than the movie, and it gives a solid portrayal of all of the Asgardian characters. Regarding Avengers, I do not like the Tony Stark actor. His voice annoys me. Cap is Perfect. Black Panther and Hank Pym are perfect. Hawkeye is simply great. They brought the avengers that we grew up with to video life as if it were a love letter. Great stuff. The way the characters interact and are continually developed is the strength of the show. Also, they brought cap to the present day very similar to the original avengers with a bit of the Ultimate version mixed together. As for that cap cartoon. The best part of it is the Kirby art that they sorta animated to create it. And its not just cheesy, its cheesy dipped in cheese with a cheese topping. I own the DVD, but do not watch it anymore. As for Bruce Timm, his art style was not as solid in the first couple of seasons of that show. It picked up however and continued to be a great fit for Superman and for all of the Justice League shows. I mean, I wish they could make them look as detailed as some anime cartoons look, but honestly those are like the cap cartoon. All still images with moving backgrounds more than actual animation like the shows I am talking about. I don't like any of this modern crap artwork. I've seen stuff on youtube and consider it all shit. If they can't do better, I'd rather them not even make the product. There is nothing really to debate. I regret even taking the time to watch the video you posted. df1
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Post by G on Nov 6, 2011 17:06:56 GMT -5
This isn't our 1st exposure to it. You linked to videos in the past and we felt the same way then. See page 1 and 2 of this thread. The clip you have presented us now is a minute long, are we to believe that things are different (better) in the other 20 or so minutes of an episode than is represented here? Do we need to watch the whole show to have a feeling on it? You obviously love it and that's fine but no matter how much you explain and defend the show it isn't going to make me like it better.
The problem is you are predisposed to liking this just as I am predisposed to not liking it. I've seen enough of it to not want to see more. If I had seen clips in here that made me go "that looks like the bomb!"....I would have said so. As it is, it looks so-so (and that's generous) at best to me. I don't think more minutes will change my mind. The shit looks 8-14 year old corny-nerdy-cheesy to me. Don't need to be more educated about it or exposed to it more. I done know it. I've seen enough. Its not making an opinion without seeing it. It's making an opinion AFTER seeing it.
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Post by cyberstrike on Nov 7, 2011 10:40:07 GMT -5
I mean, I wish they could make them look as detailed as some anime cartoons look, but honestly those are like the cap cartoon. All still images with moving backgrounds more than actual animation like the shows I am talking about. The reason as to why they don't use detailed character models is that those are far more expensive and harder to animate properly on a consistant level. Hell even back in the heyday of the 80s with shows that I loved as a kid (and still love) like G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero, Jem and The Holograms, The Inhumanoids, Robotix, M.A.S.K, The Real Ghostbusters, and especially The Transformers, the quality of the animation literally ranged from great to crap from episode-to-episode all of the time. The opening for G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero-The Movie is still some best animation I've ever seen, but the movie still has some lackluster scenes as well.
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Post by G on Nov 7, 2011 20:14:08 GMT -5
Let me clarify my position on this cartoon just a bit further.
It's not that I'm coming down on THIS particular cartoon any more than I would others. I have to say when it comes to superhero cartoons I can hardly think of one that I EVER liked. And that includes this one too. It's no worse than really any of the rest but in that respect, it's no better either.
The problem I have with superhero cartoons is this.....When I read comics, I have it in my mind as a serious adult story. Even back in the day back in the 70s and 80s, I didn't see my comics as cheesy kid stuff. I seen them as continuing serials and many adult things were happening and the drama was playing out for me on an adult level.
When I was young and watched Superhero cartoons, I never got that same vibe. Instead I got something which seemed a lot younger than I ever imagined. A lot cornier. A lot more nonchalant. The drama was never real. The way it was depicted was 10 - 20 years younger than what I viewed my comics. And to be honest, I seen ALL superhero cartoons this way. I can't think of 1 superhero cartoon that made me feel like the comics do. Not one!!! And this is basically 4 decades of watching them periodically, I never found one that grabbed that comic book feel. They all made me feel more stupid watching the cartoons than just reading the comics.
To put it bluntly, I always felt like I outgrew cartoons. But yeah, I never outgrew comics. Makes sense hunh? Well, in comics I don't have to have the cheesy background music and animated voices. I've got my own voices and sound effects in my mind and its playing out a lot older when I read it than when I watch it. To me its the fundamental difference between reading comics and watching cartoons. If I want to turn my brain on autopilot, I can watch a cartoon and maybe get a bit of enjoyment out of it. But its not fulfilling enough for me to want to keep watching it. Its below what my mind imagines. It's inferior to the printed product. That's the way I see it.
So when it comes to this Avengers cartoon, I can see the preview clips and tell I'll see it the same way. Well below what I would view it if it was in comic format. And if the comic format isn't living up to what I want, I just drop it and move to something else and buy me different comics. Well, to put it mildly, cartoons have never lived up for me and I just move on. It's nothing really against THIS cartoon. I just think Superhero cartoons in general are lower down on the comic fan food chain and I just don't care for them. I never felt like I outgrew comics but I've always felt like I outgrew superhero cartoons.
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