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Post by G on Jan 31, 2011 14:37:23 GMT -5
I'm sure you guys have seen that Marvel is doing a couple of the Crossgen Series. Both Ruse and Sigil have release dates of March 2011. While I think it's good some of these see the light of day again, I found myself instantly turned off upon realizing both would be 4 issue mini-series and appeared to be sporting the typical lame covers we've been seeing from everyone else.
While I never totally related to any of the Crossgen titles, I have picked up a nice smattering of the comics over the years and felt they were nice pieces of comic work on their own merit. Its easy to tell the difference between hard work and run of the mill and I always felt Crossgen put out a quality product even if the titles didn't always appeal to me personally, the work put into them was of a quality construction. I almost get the feeling that Marvel will mess up their legacy much the same as Dark Horse has further destroyed the Valiant legacy. Being Disney bought the properties after Crossgen went bankrupt, it's only a matter of time before we see watered down versions of what it once was.
I do not foresee myself buying any of these titles. Seeing these as limited series just turned me off. It appears to be nothing more than a cheap, flash in the pan, quick hype money grab.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 31, 2011 22:13:15 GMT -5
I'm sure you guys have seen that Marvel is doing a couple of the Crossgen Series. Both Ruse and Sigil have release dates of March 2011. While I think it's good some of these see the light of day again, I found myself instantly turned off upon realizing both would be 4 issue mini-series and appeared to be sporting the typical lame covers we've been seeing from everyone else. While I never totally related to any of the Crossgen titles, I have picked up a nice smattering of the comics over the years and felt they were nice pieces of comic work on their own merit. Its easy to tell the difference between hard work and run of the mill and I always felt Crossgen put out a quality product even if the titles didn't always appeal to me personally, the work put into them was of a quality construction. I almost get the feeling that Marvel will mess up their legacy much the same as Dark Horse has further destroyed the Valiant legacy. Being Disney bought the properties after Crossgen went bankrupt, it's only a matter of time before we see watered down versions of what it once was. I do not foresee myself buying any of these titles. Seeing these as limited series just turned me off. It appears to be nothing more than a cheap, flash in the pan, quick hype money grab. Never was interested in Cross-Gen. df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Feb 1, 2011 13:31:30 GMT -5
I'm sure you guys have seen that Marvel is doing a couple of the Crossgen Series. Both Ruse and Sigil have release dates of March 2011. While I think it's good some of these see the light of day again, I found myself instantly turned off upon realizing both would be 4 issue mini-series and appeared to be sporting the typical lame covers we've been seeing from everyone else. While I never totally related to any of the Crossgen titles, I have picked up a nice smattering of the comics over the years and felt they were nice pieces of comic work on their own merit. Its easy to tell the difference between hard work and run of the mill and I always felt Crossgen put out a quality product even if the titles didn't always appeal to me personally, the work put into them was of a quality construction. I almost get the feeling that Marvel will mess up their legacy much the same as Dark Horse has further destroyed the Valiant legacy. Being Disney bought the properties after Crossgen went bankrupt, it's only a matter of time before we see watered down versions of what it once was. I do not foresee myself buying any of these titles. Seeing these as limited series just turned me off. It appears to be nothing more than a cheap, flash in the pan, quick hype money grab. Honestly the original Crossgen titles were are still better than just about any other Marvel comic being produced today. The characters were great and surprising how great many of them of were, Scion, Meridian, Mystic, Sojourn, and Sigil were and still are LIGHT YEARS better than just about everything Marvel is currently doing. The characters are well-written, the books are well drawn, and colored, and set in a connected universe that you didn't have read every book to understand what the fuck was going on. They also had strong women in a lot of their books that wasn't just a well-drawn bimbo with big tits. It was great to see a company that created comics that didn't have superheroes in any of them, instead focusing on sci-fi, fantasy, detective, samurai, pirate, horror, kung-fu, action, adventure, war, and other genres. I hate to tell you guys this: if you want comics to survive then they have to get into more genres more than superheroes. A lot of people are more interested in other genres, than superheroes. I think superheroes still have a place but we need other genres. Marvel's revival looks stupid and they don't even understand the concepts much less any of these characters.
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Post by bigw1966 on Feb 1, 2011 14:09:02 GMT -5
Like Cyber just said, the CROSSGEN books were outstanding and still stand far above 90% of the drek that has come out since.\
RUSE is a Masterpiece. NEGATION was solid sci-fi that tied all of the books together. CRUX, The FIRST, WAY OF THE RAT and even BRATH all solid books.
When that company was in existance, it was the one company I actually wanted to work for. I even did a couple pages of a submission right before they announced the end.
Marvel is starting with SIGIL. The only real change they are making to it is turning Saman'dal Ray from a man to a woman. But they seem to be following the same idea that the books originally had.
I still have nearly every issue published by them and they still hold up beautifully.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 4, 2011 1:52:06 GMT -5
Crossgen is mostly fantasy. I have no interest in their stories no matter how well written. Crossgen was what keyed me in that artists were drawing less detail and relying on computer coloring to fill in shading. I think the art sucks for the most part. Greg Land's stuff looked nice, but we know know he was probably light-boxing photo reference images and that takes away the charm.
df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Feb 4, 2011 12:57:02 GMT -5
Well they did El Cazador, which was a pirate book. they did BRATH, which was a Barbarian title. They did RUSE, which was a Victorian Detective book They did the PATH, which was about Samaurai.
They did Way of the Dragon, which was basically a Jackie Chan movie in a comic.( Which was a comedy title)
They did THE FIRST which was a book about the Gods of that Universe and was more about Intrigue and Manipulation and these Gods also manipulated the lives of the characters in the other titles.
They had a science Fiction line which included SIGIL (think Marvels Star Lord) NEGATION CRUX
They had a Fantasy Line SCION SOJOURN MYSTIC MERRIDIAN
Horror ROUTE 666
Artwise, they had the following sucky Artists
George Perez Butch guice Bart Sears Brandon Peterson Greg Land Jim Cheung Josh Middleton Andrea DeVito Steve Epting Jeff Johnson Joe Bennett
Man looking at that list, I wonder what I ever saw in a bunch of sucky artists like them?
why did I write this? Well I did it because of defiant making another uninformed statement regarding something he obviously never gave enough time to to even investigate.
as for artists shading with color instead of black. I am all for that when neccessary, because BLACK is not a color but a tone. (meaning it requires a number of variables in order to exist) It does not exist naturally in reality and black is not a color associated with human beings other than Hair on indian people which really contains alot of auburn and brown color. But I digress.
CROSSGEN had more originality and quality of product than MARVEL/DC or IMAGE during their 6 year existance, than those companies have put out since. They supported a wide range of genres very well and managed to properly tie them all together. Its really to bad the Bankrupsy thing happened. If it hadn't, they would probably be the top comic company out there if they followed the path they started on.
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Post by defiant1 on Feb 4, 2011 16:04:07 GMT -5
Well they did El Cazador, which was a pirate book. they did BRATH, which was a Barbarian title. They did RUSE, which was a Victorian Detective book They did the PATH, which was about Samaurai. They did Way of the Dragon, which was basically a Jackie Chan movie in a comic.( Which was a comedy title) They did THE FIRST which was a book about the Gods of that Universe and was more about Intrigue and Manipulation and these Gods also manipulated the lives of the characters in the other titles. They had a science Fiction line which included SIGIL (think Marvels Star Lord) NEGATION CRUX They had a Fantasy Line SCION SOJOURN MYSTIC MERRIDIAN Horror ROUTE 666 Artwise, they had the following sucky Artists George Perez Butch guice Bart Sears Brandon Peterson Greg Land Jim Cheung Josh Middleton Andrea DeVito Steve Epting Jeff Johnson Joe Bennett Man looking at that list, I wonder what I ever saw in a bunch of sucky artists like them? why did I write this? Well I did it because of defiant making another uninformed statement regarding something he obviously never gave enough time to to even investigate. as for artists shading with color instead of black. I am all for that when neccessary, because BLACK is not a color but a tone. (meaning it requires a number of variables in order to exist) It does not exist naturally in reality and black is not a color associated with human beings other than Hair on indian people which really contains alot of auburn and brown color. But I digress. CROSSGEN had more originality and quality of product than MARVEL/DC or IMAGE during their 6 year existance, than those companies have put out since. They supported a wide range of genres very well and managed to properly tie them all together. Its really to bad the Bankrupsy thing happened. If it hadn't, they would probably be the top comic company out there if they followed the path they started on. Barbarian storylines are pretty much fantasy. So are most modern day pirate , samurai, and sci-fi stories. It plays on fantasy bulls#!+ and overwhelms what the inspiration was. I don't like horror either. It tends to bore me. Someone has to be easily scared to be horrified. I horrify people when I call raspberry zingers a tampon cake and stuff one in my mouth. You indeed name some good artists, but some of the more dominant titles started eliminating detail and having the colorist fill that in. Maybe not Perez, but they were all drawing stories I couldn't care less about anyway. If artists want to hand paint a comic in color, I'm all for it. I detest computer coloring with all it's colors not found in nature, is plastic looking gradients, and mathematically distorting effect to the sharp edges and lines whether they be black or any natural color. I have no fascination with Asian themes. I'm sick as hell of Ninjas, Samurais, clans, and any crap along those lines. If you are into any of that... I'm all for them to be around. it's just not anything I'm going to buy. I bought Abadazad for the Ploog art and the fact I know DeMatteis can write. It was interesting, but I really didn't care about the theme of the book. df1
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Post by G on Feb 4, 2011 16:25:02 GMT -5
I'm not going to say I'm a huge fan of Crossgen because when they existed, I wasn't buying anything they put out. It wasn't until after they were dead and easily found in dumpsters did I start to pick them up. Like I said, I have a decent amount of them, but I haven't really read any of them because I don't have any nice runs yet. I think when I do finally get a nice run of them, I will sit down and read these little by little. I actually see myself wanting to own an entire set of these. I think it is obtainable and I also think one day these could eventually go up in value.
I kinda see Crossgen like it is sorta a Image Jr. Or maybe an Image II. Or let me put it this way, I see them as a better version of Image. They did come out and did try and be different. Superheroes really wasn't they're bag (I kinda wish they had a couple). They were into the new style of art and coloring. So I think originally when they existed, this is what was turning me off to them. But now that I own a few, when I look through them, I think they did it a notch above what the competition was doing it. Yeah, the stories and titles may not have been my cup of tea. And yeah, I don't care as much for the newer way things are done. But comics are what they are and if comics are going to exist in that format, which they damn sure are....then I think I'd rather see them put out with the amount of quality that Crossgen put them out in.
Like I've said, I wasn't a fan, I didn't buy or read and I don't own the collections. But I will say when I purchased, it is easy to see they did it a step above what others were doing it and in that regard, they have my respect and they have increased my desire to want to own the comics. Because unlike so many others where so many things turn me off. I could see they did a good job with what they were doing.
Now this new stuff being put out by Marvel, I can see they're going to jack it up. I've done seen some preview pages and it gives me that old sick feeling I get when I see a lot of comics today. So, I have no excitement for the new Crossgen Comics by Marvel. But I will continue to collect the old Crossgen books when I see them cheap. And I have a feeling I need to hop to it if I want to continue to see all the books dirt cheap. Just like in the late 90s you could buy Valiants for nothing. Its sorta where we are with Crossgen today. I don't expect it to last forever.
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Post by bigw1966 on Feb 5, 2011 11:50:54 GMT -5
Hey I like Rasberry Zingers. they're the bomb.
when I think of fantasy, I think Lord of the Rings, wheel of Time, Harry Potter and that ilk.
when I think of Science Fiction, I think of Star Wars and Star Trek, Gattica, Foundation, discworld and damn near every superhero title ever published.
As a painter, I am drawn towards the color dominated shading of comics, especially if done right. I grew up on the flat looking coloring of old, but it never thrilled me or helped to tell a story which these days, in the right hands, I feel color allows.
IMAGE II is a good analogy.
Steve Epting and guice and Devito draw the same way today that they did then, So does Cheung for that matter. Lots of blacks and a push towards realism and detail.
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Post by G on Feb 5, 2011 12:01:48 GMT -5
Hey I like Rasberry Zingers. they're the bomb. This thread gave me the idea of putting rasberry zingers in front of twat and eating it up!
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