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Post by G on Mar 13, 2011 11:12:39 GMT -5
you didn't give it shit dude. that is why I continually bring the title up. you cannot read a random issue or even a single issue like the free #1 and get what is going on. How many times do I have to look at something to know I don't like it? Damn dude. I've read #1. I own a #50 and anything I've seen otherwise hasn't inspired me one single bit. I haven't given it a shit because it's never made me give a shit. You've always been prone to read books like this. You were knee deep in the X-Files tv show when that was out. You was into all kinds of shows like that when I used to hang around you and they all used to bore me to tears. I'm not into shit like that. Yeah, I love Superheroes. So what? Does that make me less hip as you? Should I post my comic list every time I get a batch of comics so you can see how diversified the group of books are? I can guarantee you it's not all Superheroes. But that being said, I don't feel bad for liking them or wanting to like them either. If you've moved on from Superheroes...good. Perhaps we should start an anti-superhero section in here. I'm not without an open mind. I've read things I want to read. I read crap like you've mentioned and it doesn't grab me. Just like it didn't grab me all those years ago. Me and you don't like comics for the same reasons. That's fine with me. I realize there is a major movement towards comics that have nothing to do with Superheroes, but every time I go to a convention, I still see literally hundreds if not thousands of collectors filling in their spots on their super hero collection. That's pretty much me. That's why I have this site. I'm willing to discuss any and all sides of comics and I think I have. But I'm not going to narrow my focus to comics that don't include a cape. Hell, like I said, I'll talk Donald Duck and Archie with you if you want and can dig the subjects. I'm sorry, I'm just not a fan of Walking Dead. I don't think you can change my mind. No matter how educated you make it sound. I don't like it. My eyes tell me I don't like it.
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Post by defiant1 on Mar 13, 2011 12:24:34 GMT -5
you didn't give it shit dude. that is why I continually bring the title up. you cannot read a random issue or even a single issue like the free #1 and get what is going on. How many times do I have to look at something to know I don't like it? Damn dude. I've read #1. I own a #50 and anything I've seen otherwise hasn't inspired me one single bit. I haven't given it a shit because it's never made me give a shit. Ha ha! We have to suffer through more so we can like it. It makes sense though.... kinda like people with bee sting allergies needing to be stung with more bees so the allergy will go away. No wait... I'm wrong. That kills them. I haven't got a good analogy for this one. df1
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Post by G on Mar 13, 2011 13:17:34 GMT -5
It's is done. I have created an Anti-Heroes section located in the "What's the story Now?" section. If it shows enough promise, I'll move it from a sub-board and make it a main board.
The Crack is an equal opportunity comics board.
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Post by cyberstrike on Mar 13, 2011 17:23:42 GMT -5
Crossgen I agree with. I loved their stuff. They wanted Superhero stuff, but they wanted to stand apart. So they fully embraced the Sci-fi concept of it and createda lot of wonderful books that existed in multiple universes and time periods yet still remained conected to each other. Brilliant. and now Marvel is about to fuck all that up. A few things: 1) IIRC The orginal Crossgen Universe was set in one universe at the same time they just took place on different planets. 2) While Crossgen did put out sci-fi books they leaned more towards fantasy. 3) Also all the First and the sigil-bearers in all of the CGU books were technically super-heroes and/or super-villains due to the fact that the sigil gave them powers beyond the normal range of abilities that the people surrounding them had and The First were demi-gods. 4) Marvel will fuck it up.
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Post by G on Mar 13, 2011 19:16:22 GMT -5
How many times do I have to look at something to know I don't like it? Damn dude. I've read #1. I own a #50 and anything I've seen otherwise hasn't inspired me one single bit. I haven't given it a shit because it's never made me give a shit. Ha ha! We have to suffer through more so we can like it. It makes sense though.... kinda like people with bee sting allergies needing to be stung with more bees so the allergy will go away. No wait... I'm wrong. That kills them. I haven't got a good analogy for this one. df1 Maybe if we throw some maggots on it, it'll get better.
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Post by bigw1966 on Mar 16, 2011 12:29:35 GMT -5
Lets clear some things here.
1. I like superheroes. I have not moved on from them either.
2. The title of your thread asks the question would superior comics be successful today? the answer is yes, but it will not come from Superheroes.
3. I mentioned a number of "Superior Books" aside from Walking dead.
4. I repeatedly bring up Walking Dead because It is superior and you cannot judge the comic off of a single issue because it is not that kind of book. It is serialized and the purpose of serialization is because the Characters change throughout the story.
which brings me to the point I wanted to make.
You will never see true change in characters in any Superhero comic that has run for a long time. The characters are not allowed to change. They are not allowed to grow. they have been designed to fit within a rigid framework that even given the illusion of any change, are snapped back to the status quo soon after. Marvel created the Ultimate Universe to do this, but have already started to align some of the characters with their 616 counterparts.
Superheroes by their nature cannot be allowed to have drastic changes. However, all of those other titles I mentioned are written in a way that allows the characters to learn and to progress. To become better or worse because of their actions. That is what makes Walking Dead a success. That is what made 100 Bullets successful. Same with "Y" the Last Man and Locke and Key. It also works for Hellblazer.
The reason I said read the first 6 issue ac, was because in those 6 issues you would have encountered more character growth than you do in a stack of mainstream books.
Great Art is one thing and it is also subjective. However, Writing can elevate a book or it can throw it under the bus. These titles I mentioned are looked at for their writing. They all have good art, but the writing and approach to character is what sets them apart and provides even more quality.
If Superhero books were given the opportunity for that kind of character growth, then they would likely be doing better in the market.
Invincible, also by Kirkman is a great Superhero book that allows the characters to grow and change and it is actually consistently better than most other Superhero books. Check it out.
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Post by bigw1966 on Mar 16, 2011 12:47:47 GMT -5
cyberstrike; The FIRST existed outside of the main universe. NEGATION took place in an Alternate Universe that wanted to Invade ours all of the characters had been kidnapped so they could assess what they would face in the invasion. All Superheroes are a mix of Sci/fi and Fantasy.
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Post by G on Mar 19, 2011 11:47:27 GMT -5
Lets clear some things here. 1. I like superheroes. I have not moved on from them either. You've made the claim more than once that you don't buy comics anymore or barely and yet every time a comic gets discussed you appear to know all about it. I know you can still get your comics from other sources, but pound for pound, I'm actively buying and you give the appearance of knowing more about all the comic titles than I would know if I read some of these storylines for a year. Then you've basically told us we can't get over superheroes even when I've posted quite a few reviews on books not featuring heroes and give the appearance of superheroes are outdated and just regurgitating the same storylines over and over again. While that may be true in some cases, maybe even a lot, if I had come to that conclusion, I think I would drop off and not know anything about any of them. You seem to follow superheroes rather well. And yet, bored with them at the same time. I need to work my way up to being as bored with Superheroes as you are. As it is, I still enjoy them when done well. 2. The title of your thread asks the question would superior comics be successful today? the answer is yes, but it will not come from Superheroes. I don't see it that way. Superheroes have just as much a chance of being great as the next comic book. The only limitation to it is who is the mind creating it? 3. I mentioned a number of "Superior Books" aside from Walking dead. It feels like you've rammed Walking Dead down my throat. Anytime a subject of how comics should be gets going.....here comes the Walking Dead. 4. I repeatedly bring up Walking Dead because It is superior and you cannot judge the comic off of a single issue because it is not that kind of book. It is serialized and the purpose of serialization is because the Characters change throughout the story. I've been reading comics since 1978. I know you've been doing it longer, but I think a 1/3rd of a century qualifies me as knowing what I like and what I don't like when I see it. Why the fuck can't I judge a comic after only a few looks at it? After a few stories? After countless times of seeing the pictures, covers and hoopla? If I've plunked down my money to buy it or looked at the pdf file of the comic and read it. If I've spent my $4 for admission, why do I need to wait until I've spent $40 - $50 to tell myself I like it or not? If the comic is out there, I may pick it up and read it. It doesn't always have 10 issues I'm willing to give it to sway my opinion on it. I thought issue #1 was stupid and the art was average. The art has deteriorated every time I've seen it. I'm always told it's not about zombies and yet they appear on the background of nearly every cover. I don't know if it is still the case today, but I've heard how the Zomibes got there has never been explained. To be honest with you, I find Crossed a LOT more enjoyable than Walking Dead and that is only a quick little thrill ride. I don't need to keep giving Walking Dead chances. I've seen enough....plenty. I don't care for it. It doesn't turn me on. I'm different than you. I'm entitled to feel that way. I'm okay with you liking it. But to continue to try and convince me or us that we're not giving it a chance because we don't read it is not going to make me change my mind. I don't need to be told the finer nuances of a writer or an artist. I've got enough experience on my own. I've got tons of comic books. I have eyes and a brain. I can see for myself. I know quickly when I like a comic. I also know when I don't like one. I'm with the latter here. I personally feel like the Walking Dead is "Over-Rated". Maybe a decent read if you want to read it, but I don't. If you want to feel smarter about it because you read it and I dont, then go right ahead. which brings me to the point I wanted to make. You will never see true change in characters in any Superhero comic that has run for a long time. The characters are not allowed to change. They are not allowed to grow. they have been designed to fit within a rigid framework that even given the illusion of any change, are snapped back to the status quo soon after. I'm not really quite sure I understand what you mean here. I realize characters die off and come back to life and things are they were as before. But changes do take place sometimes. Jean Grey became Phoenix and then Dark Phoenix. Beast started as a hairy human, got blue fur and now looks like a Cat. Before Reed and Sue had children, Sue had a miscarriage. At one point they werent married. Northstar was revealed as gay 106 issues into the Alpha Flight run. Gwen Stacey is still dead. I'm not 100% sure but I think Thunderbird is still dead. The Hulk suddenly got Smart. I'm sure there are other things, but this is just off the top of my head. Numerous characters have costume changes. Some gain or lose powers. Yeah, a lot of this comes and goes and goes back to the way it was before. I understand the characters are really just properties and once they have met a certain understanding with the general public, they can't drift too far from that without ruining the image of what the general public knows. As properties they are more valuable than the characters that appear in the comics. But really the only limitation is what the creators place on them. If me and you made a book and wanted to make changes, we could. Its really up to whoever is in charge. If the properties dictate that they must remain a certain way, then I guess they've gotten too big and moneymaking to change that. But hell, even characters like Captain America, Daredevil, Fantastic Four and so on continue to be different than the characters I grew up on. The only real limitation is imagination. Superheroes by their nature cannot be allowed to have drastic changes. However, all of those other titles I mentioned are written in a way that allows the characters to learn and to progress. To become better or worse because of their actions. That is what makes Walking Dead a success. That is what made 100 Bullets successful. Same with "Y" the Last Man and Locke and Key. It also works for Hellblazer. The reason I said read the first 6 issue ac, was because in those 6 issues you would have encountered more character growth than you do in a stack of mainstream books. What if I didn't like issue #1? What if I seen the cover of #2 and didn't want to read it? I can't give every comic I buy 6 issues to sway me. I don't have enough money for that. If the 1st 6 issues were so great, why was issue #1 so stupid??? Great Art is one thing and it is also subjective. However, Writing can elevate a book or it can throw it under the bus. These titles I mentioned are looked at for their writing. They all have good art, but the writing and approach to character is what sets them apart and provides even more quality. If Superhero books were given the opportunity for that kind of character growth, then they would likely be doing better in the market. Invincible, also by Kirkman is a great Superhero book that allows the characters to grow and change and it is actually consistently better than most other Superhero books. Check it out. So I guess if Kirkman does it, it can happen?
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Post by defiant1 on Mar 20, 2011 5:41:08 GMT -5
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Post by G on Mar 20, 2011 9:21:37 GMT -5
It does taste like dogshit! LOL! This skit used to be big when I was a kid. I love Cheech and Chong. I've actually had the Big Bamboo record album since I was a teenager. It comes with a huge rolling paper. I think it looks like dogshit, Feels like dogshit, Smells like dogshit and I'm NOT going to taste it. I think it's dogshit.
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