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Post by cyberstrike on Jul 28, 2011 8:12:22 GMT -5
...at IDW's message boards might get you banned because it's considered a personal attack (and the creator occasionally posts there). Now what this is about, I made a comment that I would buy all of the Transformers books except the one written by Simon Furman because I consider his recent works crap. Well one of the new mods or admins there considered my calling Furman's work crap a personal attack and gave me a warning about it. what follows is the series of PMs between me and the mod.
My final reply and I must apologize for the skipping of words when I get mad I tend to think faster than I write:
So apparently giving a honest opinion about what I think of Furman's current writing abilities because it's unpopular warrants a warning to get banned if I continue to state my honest opinion on his product.
It is this kind of crap that makes me hate both comic books fans and Transfans alike is that they can't accept opinions that support their views. Instead they give false praise and accept crap when they need some constructive criticism.
Video Game company Bioware released a game that a lot of their fans hated and instead of throwing them out they let them rant and rave about what problems that they had with the game and hopefully they will learn and do better.
Comic book creators and publishers can learn a lot from that.
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Post by G on Jul 28, 2011 20:55:40 GMT -5
So apparently giving a honest opinion about what I think of Furman's current writing abilities because it's unpopular warrants a warning to get banned if I continue to state my honest opinion on his product. It is this kind of crap that makes me hate both comic books fans and Transfans alike is that they can't accept opinions that support their views. Instead they give false praise and accept crap when they need some constructive criticism. Video Game company Bioware released a game that a lot of their fans hated and instead of throwing them out they let them rant and rave about what problems that they had with the game and hopefully they will learn and do better. Comic book creators and publishers can learn a lot from that. It sucks that boards and companies cannot take honest criticism. I think boards that have everyone praising everything and every concept that a company comes out with is very boring. I also think no one learns anything that way. If you surround yourself with a bunch of yes-men, you are almost guaranteeing your failure. I don't agree with what everyone says on here and I'm sure everyone doesn't always agree with me. That's fine. It's what makes the board a better place. If everyone on here was like rah-rah, I love everything, what would there be to talk about? Comic companies certainly need to learn from this. They keep believing from the few who remain that say their product is great while they don't ask why the tens upon thousands have left. What are you going to learn from the few going "this is great"? You could learn a lot more by asking the throngs of people who left "why did you leave"? Companies like what you just described makes me want them to fail. I've generally felt IDW was a middle of the pack kind of company that is sorta underwhelming from their potential. I think they are capable of hitting some home runs and mainly they fail to impress when they really could have. I did read a Transformers recently and I really liked it. It was better than I thought it would be. I thought John Byrne's Next Men is very enjoyable on par with the best currently out there. But for the most part, IDW disappoints me. The remind me of Dark Horse when they were young. So much potential but not capitalizing and taking over when they could be. I think they need to listen to their fans. They stand to lose a lot by sticking with the status quo. They could gain a lot by listening to the complaints.
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Post by defiant1 on Jul 29, 2011 1:13:58 GMT -5
...at IDW's message boards might get you banned because it's considered a personal attack (and the creator occasionally posts there). Now what this is about, I made a comment that I would buy all of the Transformers books except the one written by Simon Furman because I consider his recent works crap. Well one of the new mods or admins there considered my calling Furman's work crap a personal attack and gave me a warning about it. what follows is the series of PMs between me and the mod. My final reply and I must apologize for the skipping of words when I get mad I tend to think faster than I write: So apparently giving a honest opinion about what I think of Furman's current writing abilities because it's unpopular warrants a warning to get banned if I continue to state my honest opinion on his product. It is this kind of crap that makes me hate both comic books fans and Transfans alike is that they can't accept opinions that support their views. Instead they give false praise and accept crap when they need some constructive criticism. Video Game company Bioware released a game that a lot of their fans hated and instead of throwing them out they let them rant and rave about what problems that they had with the game and hopefully they will learn and do better. Comic book creators and publishers can learn a lot from that. A person's "work" is not "the person themselves". There is a huge difference between saying "You suck" and "Hey, your plot sucked in that last comic you wrote". Your problem is the same problem I deal with. There are too many idiots creating and supporting comics. They naively think that customers are interested in hearing a long series of sappy praises. Rather than listen to a suggestion for improvement or an honest opinion, they'd be perfectly happy reading a hundred mindless posts that simply say "You rock!" People think that the power of positive thought fixes problems. It doesn't. It's just another way of ignoring them. I quit reading Jim Shooter's messageboard because of a fan who posts there. I think the guy is a fucking idiot with a justified inferiority complex. He can't get me to say what he wants me to say, so he's constantly trying to get into heated discussion and sabotage my integrity. I don't really care what he thinks, but I have better ways to spend my time. I talk to people at the level they want to talk. If people want to call me an asshole, I'll redefine that word for them and teach them what an asshole really is. There are idiots that walk around and they think their mental capacity for thought is acceptable. It's not. As a general rule, I don't waste time with places where my comments aren't welcome. I might stick around if I think there's hope of sparking an improvement. I'm arrogant enough to think that my comments are going to be more interesting than 70% what others post. I figure that if a board has a problem with me, I was too good for it anyway. It deserves what it gets after I'm gone. df1
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Post by defiant1 on Jul 29, 2011 1:19:38 GMT -5
So apparently giving a honest opinion about what I think of Furman's current writing abilities because it's unpopular warrants a warning to get banned if I continue to state my honest opinion on his product. It is this kind of crap that makes me hate both comic books fans and Transfans alike is that they can't accept opinions that support their views. Instead they give false praise and accept crap when they need some constructive criticism. Video Game company Bioware released a game that a lot of their fans hated and instead of throwing them out they let them rant and rave about what problems that they had with the game and hopefully they will learn and do better. Comic book creators and publishers can learn a lot from that. It sucks that boards and companies cannot take honest criticism. I think boards that have everyone praising everything and every concept that a company comes out with is very boring. I also think no one learns anything that way. If you surround yourself with a bunch of yes-men, you are almost guaranteeing your failure. I don't agree with what everyone says on here and I'm sure everyone doesn't always agree with me. That's fine. It's what makes the board a better place. If everyone on here was like rah-rah, I love everything, what would there be to talk about? Comic companies certainly need to learn from this. They keep believing from the few who remain that say their product is great while they don't ask why the tens upon thousands have left. What are you going to learn from the few going "this is great"? You could learn a lot more by asking the throngs of people who left "why did you leave"? Companies like what you just described makes me want them to fail. I've generally felt IDW was a middle of the pack kind of company that is sorta underwhelming from their potential. I think they are capable of hitting some home runs and mainly they fail to impress when they really could have. I did read a Transformers recently and I really liked it. It was better than I thought it would be. I thought John Byrne's Next Men is very enjoyable on par with the best currently out there. But for the most part, IDW disappoints me. The remind me of Dark Horse when they were young. So much potential but not capitalizing and taking over when they could be. I think they need to listen to their fans. They stand to lose a lot by sticking with the status quo. They could gain a lot by listening to the complaints. IDW has to be struggling. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Jul 29, 2011 8:17:08 GMT -5
IDW is currently the #3 comic publisher in the US. They are not struggling.
Reading your post cyber, I will respond from the standpoint of someone who admined a large community website for a few years.
Your response itself was not the problem so much as how you worded it. You see, the number one thing thats a negative on forums, is Flaming. Mods, tend to if they are a good moderator, tend to nip that stuff in the bud pretty fast. A Zero tolerancy policy exists on all large boards and "Personal Attacks" are the biggest no no. Hence the warning.
It is also not like most of these boards Byrne robotics not withstanding since I don't go there, don't want to hear your opinions, they just don't want it delivered in what they fear will be a string of Venom.
It may also be the case that the Mod in question reacted too quickly that time.
Personally, I don't see what is wrong with your comment. You were obviously commenting on Simon's work and not the man himself.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jul 29, 2011 11:32:49 GMT -5
IDW is currently the #3 comic publisher in the US. They are not struggling. Reading your post cyber, I will respond from the standpoint of someone who admined a large community website for a few years. Your response itself was not the problem so much as how you worded it. You see, the number one thing thats a negative on forums, is Flaming. Mods, tend to if they are a good moderator, tend to nip that stuff in the bud pretty fast. A Zero tolerancy policy exists on all large boards and "Personal Attacks" are the biggest no no. Hence the warning. It is also not like most of these boards Byrne robotics not withstanding since I don't go there, don't want to hear your opinions, they just don't want it delivered in what they fear will be a string of Venom. It may also be the case that the Mod in question reacted too quickly that time. Personally, I don't see what is wrong with your comment. You were obviously commenting on Simon's work and not the man himself. I've been a mod and/or admin at several Transformers and wrestling boards for many years, and I have NEVER issued a warning for something like that and hell the mod even acknowledged that it was my opinion. Here's the real hypocrisy: there are a thread (or 2) there that by those same rules that flames Mike Costa (the current writer of The Transformers), in the title of the thread, and I've seen people there are who flame him all the time and say a lot worse about him than I said about Furman and the mods and admins there either: A) Do nothing about it. B) Part of it. C) Or both. Boards like the ran by John Byrne and Rob Liefeld are there for fans to kiss their respective asses.
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Post by G on Jul 29, 2011 11:47:48 GMT -5
You see, the number one thing thats a negative on forums, is Flaming. Mods, tend to if they are a good moderator, tend to nip that stuff in the bud pretty fast. A Zero tolerancy policy exists on all large boards and "Personal Attacks" are the biggest no no. Hence the warning. I only have 1 rule on this board, so I hope I can now align myself with some of those better boards. comiccrack.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=vision&action=display&thread=386I wouldn't have called that a personal attack or flame. I'd call it an opinion about comic work. Being its obviously a comic board you would think they would handle more objectional statements regarding a creators work. Now if he said Furman is a dickhead, that would have been different. And even then that might just be opinion unless its directed solely at you. Sorta like, hey Mike, you're a prick. I think it has to be almost directly at someone you're speaking with or who you're absolutely sure is watching to be a flame. Saying someone's work is crap on a comic board should almost be expected. I mean come on.....get real.
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Post by bigw1966 on Jul 29, 2011 19:13:18 GMT -5
I agree with G
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Post by defiant1 on Jul 29, 2011 21:13:38 GMT -5
IDW is currently the #3 comic publisher in the US. They are not struggling. Mike... Do the math. Just do the math. The fact is, they have reached #3, but they flop back and forth for the #3 spot with Dark Horse. The #3 spot is being obtained with approximately 5% of the market share. Dark Horse and IDW collectively get around 10% of the market or less. To obtain that prize status of being the #1 Indy comic company, they have to put more titles than they should and most have either very low print runs, additional licensing costs, or an expensive creator associated with them. The books cost so much to publish that it's barely enough to pay the overhead. No publisher is doing great. DC is even desperate. That's why DC is relaunching everything. df1
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Post by defiant1 on Jul 29, 2011 21:23:46 GMT -5
You see, the number one thing thats a negative on forums, is Flaming. Mods, tend to if they are a good moderator, tend to nip that stuff in the bud pretty fast. A Zero tolerancy policy exists on all large boards and "Personal Attacks" are the biggest no no. Hence the warning. I only have 1 rule on this board, so I hope I can now align myself with some of those better boards. comiccrack.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=vision&action=display&thread=386I wouldn't have called that a personal attack or flame. I'd call it an opinion about comic work. Being its obviously a comic board you would think they would handle more objectional statements regarding a creators work. Now if he said Furman is a dickhead, that would have been different. And even then that might just be opinion unless its directed solely at you. Sorta like, hey Mike, you're a prick. I think it has to be almost directly at someone you're speaking with or who you're absolutely sure is watching to be a flame. Saying someone's work is crap on a comic board should almost be expected. I mean come on.....get real. Does anyone want me to sign up and cuss out the admin? I'll add one more name to the list of people that hate me. I've got a "banme" email address for just such purposes. I wont be buying their product. If the admin didn't like your opinion, he/she sure won't like mine. Stupid people need to know they are stupid. They live in denial. df1
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