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Post by G on Jan 18, 2010 19:30:50 GMT -5
Out of the blue this past week, my old comic drawing friend sent me an email saying another old friend we hung around with in Jr. High was looking for us and wanted to pay a visit. Me and this old friend who had emailed me had a falling out and hadn't really spoke much in the last 6 years but it appears we might start chatting again. We've been doing so on Facebook a bit here and there. Anyway, I just happened to come across an old comicbook he was working on back in the late 90's around 97 or 98. I used to spend hours with him critiquing his work and going over ideas I thought he might think about. In the end, the book never really got finished, but the pages he did do inside are fairly decent. I'm thinking of photocopying the rest and posting them up here. I'll ask him if he minds. See what you think. There was a lot I did and didn't like about this book, but I felt like after watching him for years, his work was maturing and if he just stayed more dedicated towards the comic side of his life, I always thought he would have something, somewhere eventually. From what it seems now, he seems to be still trying these days. Maybe it is getting closer. As for now, here is the cover to the book I have that he did back a dozen years or so ago.
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 18, 2010 20:15:56 GMT -5
He's got some proportion issues on the face and chins. The mouth of the head on the left doesn't look right. The faces are too craggy. I think cleaner lines are better than trying to add too much character or detail to a face. I would point him to some Toth art and suggest he try to pick up on the subtleties that Toth brought to art. To me, he's making a lot of the same mistakes that are common to a lot of amateurs. Eyes staring into space with no personality. Solemn looks. Heads too wide. Chins too wide. Tongues too small. Eyes, hands, and mouth say more in a drawing than anything else. They have to be expressive. Drawing a fist may make a character look tough, and it's easier to do... but drawing a finger reaching out or a smile that's not insane is more inviting.
df1
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 18, 2010 20:17:34 GMT -5
Why the rushed logo at the top left? Clean that up with some professional lettering and a more detailed image and it would help the overall look of the cover.
df1
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Post by G on Jan 18, 2010 21:12:03 GMT -5
Whoa! Tell us how you Really feel DF1.
Let me reiterate that this was about 12 years ago and I'm pretty certain I made a quote like there is a lot of things I do like and a lot I don't. You certainly have reinforced a lot of the things I don't.
The cover for me was not a favorite pic of mine. I too hated the rushed lettering and logos. Those really irritated me. I also recall pointing out how I didn't care for some of the faces in the background to him when this was drawn. I also wasn't down with the pose. It did seem rather generic to me. I also don't like how the 2 sides of the background don't look like they are on the same perspective plane.
However, with all that being said, I need to say that this is stuff you do as kids and young adults. Heck, I done 3 pages of my own last year and I couldn't come close to this! And, I also seen where he was at before this comic. He was progressing at this point and his art was improving. Yeah, there was plenty I didn't like, but still, I had seen plenty worse in the past before this one.
Unfortunately, I always thought the #1 problem was basically lack of time to be able to be devoted to this side of his life. You see, he actually is a professional artist to this day. That's how he makes his living. And he does a damn good job to be able to do that. Unfortunately, the type of art he did demanded he be fast. And naturally drawing all day at the day job as fast as he could which pays good money, when coming home to draw comics, which is more of an appreciation and love for the hobby, I always felt his inability to dedicate himself fully to this side of his life was his #1 weakness. Because it is there I see him rushing to churn out work like his day job when he should have took his time. And certain details could have and should have been corrected or redone and due to the lack of desire to want to make changes because this was work that didn't pay, I felt in the end, you and I and anyone else who loves comics would easily point out the flaws and may be inclined to give a negative critique and I really couldn't stop anyone from saying how they personally feel. I personally notice every flaw in the book. I've seen it many times. I also don't care much for the inking too. But at the time, it appeared he had found someone able to do it with a passion to finish when most often, things didn't get done by most people doing this kind of thing at all.
I think I want to post the rest of what he done here. In it, you will see many unfinished areas. And I used to get on him how much more effective it would have been to have a finished piece to walk around with than an unfinished one. Regardless, I still think it was a solid effort. Amateur? Certainly. But as amateurs who made no claim otherwise, I think it was a solid effort to try and do something during your spare time. If I personally had done this, I would have been proud of it no matter how many flaws are noticeable. Most people just don't sit down and do stuff like this. Yeah, lots of them do too and thats why we have comic books. But still, more people don't than do. And compared to some stuff I've seen being passed off as things wanting to be published elsewhere by some others out there, I'd say this ain't got anything to be ashamed of when I see some of that stuff. It's not very much better, but it also ain't worse either.
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Post by G on Jan 18, 2010 22:18:00 GMT -5
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Post by azbatx on Jan 18, 2010 23:12:19 GMT -5
I liked this one
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Post by defiant1 on Jan 18, 2010 23:58:04 GMT -5
I like the simplicity of this one the best. I think he's a better artist than inker. I don't think he has enough of the basics down to draw a regular comic. I think he should practice in a cute archie style before he leaps into a comic book. He's drawing too many ornamental costumes that even a pro would not want to draw page after page. If he got practice telling an Archie type story, he'd get a better grasp of the curves and proportions down. df1
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Post by azbatx on Jan 19, 2010 5:41:50 GMT -5
I like the simplicity of this one the best. I think he's a better artist than inker. I don't think he has enough of the basics down to draw a regular comic. I think he should practice in a cute archie style before he leaps into a comic book. He's drawing too many ornamental costumes that even a pro would not want to draw page after page. If he got practice telling an Archie type story, he'd get a better grasp of the curves and proportions down. df1 I can see why you would like that page. It does have appeal. My only thing is that it would only prosper with some great coloring. I chose the page I liked for the actual detail and line work of the main focus point on it. Not saying it's indeed better but one I thought could stand more on it's own.
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Post by G on Jan 19, 2010 11:05:18 GMT -5
I like the simplicity of this one the best. I think he's a better artist than inker. I don't think he has enough of the basics down to draw a regular comic. I think he should practice in a cute archie style before he leaps into a comic book. He's drawing too many ornamental costumes that even a pro would not want to draw page after page. If he got practice telling an Archie type story, he'd get a better grasp of the curves and proportions down. df1 I can see why you would like that page. It does have appeal. My only thing is that it would only prosper with some great coloring. I chose the page I liked for the actual detail and line work of the main focus point on it. Not saying it's indeed better but one I thought could stand more on it's own. When taking this book to Charlotte and having artists and editors critique it, this one seemed to get a lot of praise. I think the chair did too, but this one seemed to have a lot of nice things said about it. It's always been one of my personal favorites from the book. I personally feel the whole comic is pretty solid but it does show some amateur characteristics, but I think the further the book progresses, the more he is catching a rhythm and flow. I think starting around page 7, he starts flowing really well. I think from there until the next to the last page, he put an awful lot into the work and I was enjoying what he put out there. I'm not terribly fond of the last page, but I think that was just to finish it to bring it with us. This book originally needed to be done before Charlotte. Instead, it had to be cut off and completed enough to bring it with us. There was a few negative comments made here and there and 1 or 2 were kinda harsh and made some references to his anatomy. I remember he replied with "And yet Rob Liefeld has a job". To which they ignored the comment. Even though we left a bit down, I always felt it was a good experience for him. At the time, I was hoping he would continue on. It seemed like he took a break after this and focused on his real job. Doing pages on books here and there, but never a serious big piece of work like this before our falling out. I think he is hard at work on something now. I'll try and see what his current comics look like.
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Post by G on Jan 19, 2010 11:26:01 GMT -5
I don't know if I explained this in this thread, but in Jr. High me and this friend (Mike) had another two friends, Frank and Renato. And we all tried drawing comic books. We each had our main character.
Mine was Stingray. Frank had Sunburst. Renato had Spark. And Mike had Apollo. If I had to rate our abilities back then, I would say it went probably close to this.
Renato was probably the most gifted in the beginning. He was the best at Anatomy and movement. His weakness was drawing clothes on people.
Frank was probably the most technical. He drew comics exactly like real comics. He even copied the commercials in real comics and put them in his. He often colored his comics and he had this funky visual going that was very Kirbyesque. I never felt like he was the best, but he often made me feel like the stuff he drew was cool.
Mike at the time was probably behind both of them in terms of anatomy and drawing comics. However, he was probably the most determined and history would play that out. He also progressed the most rapidly. He literally passed us all in a 1-2 yr period.
I was the least gifted out of us. I never really felt like I was artistic growing up. I was drawing stick figures forever and then I just ended up around comic fans and artists, I kept at it. I got to the point where I could draw a good picture if I took my time. I think my best ability was I think I was the better storyteller in the group at the time. Frank even went so far as to make a copy of one of my books using his art. He took liberties with the story too. But in the end, it was kinda a classic for us. I'm trying to get a copy of it now. If I do, I'll scan it here.
Over the years, we all went mostly our separate ways and art took different terms.
Renato practically stopped drawing. And then about 10 years ago he picked it back up and thought he was still the greatest. He wasn't. He still couldnt draw clothes.
I don't know what happened to Frank. I've just seen him for the 1st time in about 20 years on Facebook. It looks like he went on to be a professional singer from what I can see. I don't see art being his main focus by 1st appearances.
Mike stuck with it. For the entire time I knew him, he never stopped drawing. He was passionate about it and it consumed his life. That passion paid off in the long run. He would eventually take jobs doing professional full time work and now he continues to do so to this day. If you hire him to paint a picture, he'll do a damn good job. The comics are I think something he still dreams of and I think he still draws pages and is indicating to me that he has some projects in the works. I think eventually he'll have published comics. Maybe not the big names, but somewhere he'll have a comic.
Me, I took 3 years of commercial art in High School. I honestly think when I try and draw, I can draw. But drawing from my head is not a gift. I can do it, but the results are shaky. I knew after 3 years of art school that I wasn't really artist caliber. I told myself there were too many people better at it. So I only drew at various times as a hobby. I honestly feel if I had drawn with the same passion and commitment that Mike did, I might one day have been an artist myself. It literally was the constant drawing that really made him the artist he is today.
I keep thinking back to what makes artists.....artists. I really think a lot of people with minor to moderate ability have it in them to become artists. The thing I really believe is.....real artists actually sit down and do it, while the rest of us sit back and say "I could have been an artist if I really tried".
I think the moral of the story is.....you don't have to be the best when you get started. But who knows how far you'll get if you don't quit?
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