|
Post by bigw1966 on Jan 20, 2010 13:34:24 GMT -5
One of you guys mentioned having me look at the work of Alex Toth. I like Toth and thought I would share with you one of his critiques of another artist. A guy by the name of Steve Rude. You may have heard of him before. Anyway, prepare yourself for one very honest and critical look at an Artists work. www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1024328
|
|
|
Post by G on Jan 20, 2010 15:13:30 GMT -5
One of you guys mentioned having me look at the work of Alex Toth. I like Toth and thought I would share with you one of his critiques of another artist. A guy by the name of Steve Rude. You may have heard of him before. Anyway, prepare yourself for one very honest and critical look at an Artists work. www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1024328I read this whole thread, the critique, the forum responses and even Mr. Rude's response to Mr. Toth's critique which was linked elsewhere in the thread. I found it all pretty fascinating. At 1st glance, you think you are looking at pretty decent art. And then Mr. Toth relentlessly crucifies him on just about every storytelling detail there is in terms of comic book creating and I have to say, I agreed with almost everything he said. Once you stood back and looked at what Toth was saying, it was almost funny the things he was pointing out. A few things I felt he was nitpicking on, but overall, he was really spot on in his assessment. Then later, when I read Rude's response, it was almost like he didn't appreciate the critique or felt it was undeserved. Again, most of what he had drawn would look fine to most of us on any given day. But the fact of the matter is, Toth was hitting on some very major points and you could tell his critique was so harsh because he felt Rude had true talent and wasn't utilizing it properly. Rude's response almost seemed to act like the old man doesn't know what he is talking about, and "I draw great"! In Rude's defense, I have to say what would Toth have critiqued on some of the artists of the past 15 years if he was alive and given the chance? You know the ones. So many times where nary a background is drawn? Where nary a view gives you any idea what is going on? At least Rude was trying to give the impression of storytelling. He had plenty of props and foreground and backgrounds throughout, various camera views, various angles showing movement of people. It certainly wasn't as bad as many works I have seen with far less going for it. But I also felt a little bit of a lack of appreciation for those who did it the right way. Very often, I feel the artists of today have so much more at their disposal and so many ways to make their craft look better. I think it is easier to cheat these days. Back in Toth's day, it was done old school, where pages got balled up in front of you and you were told it needed to be redrawn. Where you better know your craft or learn it as you go. I ended up with a sense of a lot of artists don't respect the knowledge of the old timers. And honestly, Mr. Toth was right on. These whippersnappers could learn a lot about storytelling from these old timers if they actually cared to learn. Finally, the last few pages of Toth's response was inspiring. He actually gave an almost Vince Lombardi speech on he to seek greater goals and constantly starving to be a study who learns how to constantly get better at their craft. I really think if I was Rude, I would have been inspired that he spoke to me like that. Pissed and upset? Sure...but sometimes the truth hurts. I think that was as genuine a critique as you could possibly get. And if you truly enjoy what you do and respect the man who gave it, I think it should have been an eye opening experience. I just didn't get the feeling Rude cared for the critique he got. And knowing how he turned out, I guess he has the right to feel that way.
|
|
|
Post by G on Jan 20, 2010 19:04:32 GMT -5
A few days ago, Frank and Mike had a reunion. Here they are holding up a bunch of reproductions that Frank did.
|
|
|
Post by bigw1966 on Jan 20, 2010 19:16:09 GMT -5
Actually that Toth critique is only a few years old. Toth died just a couple of years ago. Rude was working on the Jonny Quest series and Toth was at a convention he was at so he got him to look it over. Toth Inspired Rude. Along with Kirby but Toth has many similarities. Toth Knew who Steve was and that he was a well established Pro. And he still laid into him.
I don't see Steve working in comics much these days anyhow. I thought he lived up to his name when I met him.
I keep this critique around for whenever I get a little big headed about any of my work.
Also those comics in the pic of Frank and I, The color Apollo book was drawn by me. We took the -variant cover that I drew off of the Apollo book though. I had a couple more books on the backside of the ones in my hand.
|
|
|
Post by defiant1 on Jan 21, 2010 3:56:02 GMT -5
One of you guys mentioned having me look at the work of Alex Toth. I like Toth and thought I would share with you one of his critiques of another artist. A guy by the name of Steve Rude. You may have heard of him before. Anyway, prepare yourself for one very honest and critical look at an Artists work. www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1024328He was the master of getting the most out of the least. I like his comment "simplify". He designed Space Ghost. That was my favorite cartoon as a kid. df1
|
|
Wrecks
Standout Worker
Posts: 145
I Am Offline!
|
Post by Wrecks on Jan 21, 2010 5:08:45 GMT -5
That's actually some pretty neat stuff there. And I get that you are a busy person. But why not try your hand again at drawing when you have that rare opportunity to do so?
|
|
|
Post by G on Jan 21, 2010 11:17:56 GMT -5
Actually Wrecks, I started a book last year and got 3 pages into it. It wasn't exactly my cup of tea. I didn't write it and I didn't have love for it, but I had a great desire to see something I did get published. In the end, I got lazy on it and put it down. It's really hard to do a good job drawing comics. The book Mike did 12 years ago, although all of us could easily scrutinize it, is AMAZINGLY difficult to do. Try it! It's really hard to put a collection of work together like that. Remember, you're drawing like 80 - 120 pictures to get a job done. And you want to do your best. It's EASY to get bored with it. Its Easy to get burned out.
Then go back nearly 30 years ago and look at the book Frank did (Stingray, he did it, it was my character but he drew it). Okay, this was basically like 8 sheets of blank printer paper folded in half and then a book was drawn in it. The work seems far simpler and less complex. Far less pictures too. In reality, I think Frank did this in about 1-2 months. This was back when we were school kids and drew comics during class to pass time. Sure, we did our school work too. But when there was a lecture going on, we had an ear to the teacher and an eye on the comic we were drawing. Even back then, it was really hard to finish something you started. We did this for a couple of years, but in all honesty, there was really only a handful of books any of us finished. It's really hard to draw a comic if you ain't getting paid to sit down and do it.
That being said, I have actually had an idea come across my mind in the last week I would like to do. First and foremost, If I'm going to draw a book again, I need to love the project. So I think I have thought of something I would love to do. I need to check with a few other parties and see what they think. If all goes well, I might have something I really want to work on. As the title of this thread says, I seriously want to draw a comic. But knowing me, It'll probably take me about 2 years to do it and that is with dedication to keep picking it up. Life gets in the way at this age and you find more important things to do. You just have to tell yourself to go back to it when you have the time. Once you stop for any real period of time, you almost never pick it up again.
I do think I have something I want to do though. So, Im gonna wrestle with it and let things sort out as it is. Right now, Im getting ready to start a new job and Im going to college at the same time. I really better love what I want to do or I wont do it. So the key for me is to love it and then get started. I think I have something in mind...
|
|
|
Post by bigw1966 on Jan 21, 2010 11:44:15 GMT -5
Start keeping notes of the ideas as they come to you man. That way you have a baseline to work from. You could get the main plot direction and even a couple of action beats worked out in a few minutes time. That is what I do. Then I start writing the script. A script is important. It helps you to visualize what your story needs and helps you to maintain focus on it.
|
|
Wrecks
Standout Worker
Posts: 145
I Am Offline!
|
Post by Wrecks on Jan 22, 2010 5:50:39 GMT -5
Actually Wrecks, I started a book last year and got 3 pages into it. It wasn't exactly my cup of tea. I didn't write it and I didn't have love for it, but I had a great desire to see something I did get published. In the end, I got lazy on it and put it down. It's really hard to do a good job drawing comics. The book Mike did 12 years ago, although all of us could easily scrutinize it, is AMAZINGLY difficult to do. Try it! It's really hard to put a collection of work together like that. Remember, you're drawing like 80 - 120 pictures to get a job done. And you want to do your best. It's EASY to get bored with it. Its Easy to get burned out. Then go back nearly 30 years ago and look at the book Frank did (Stingray, he did it, it was my character but he drew it). Okay, this was basically like 8 sheets of blank printer paper folded in half and then a book was drawn in it. The work seems far simpler and less complex. Far less pictures too. In reality, I think Frank did this in about 1-2 months. This was back when we were school kids and drew comics during class to pass time. Sure, we did our school work too. But when there was a lecture going on, we had an ear to the teacher and an eye on the comic we were drawing. Even back then, it was really hard to finish something you started. We did this for a couple of years, but in all honesty, there was really only a handful of books any of us finished. It's really hard to draw a comic if you ain't getting paid to sit down and do it. That being said, I have actually had an idea come across my mind in the last week I would like to do. First and foremost, If I'm going to draw a book again, I need to love the project. So I think I have thought of something I would love to do. I need to check with a few other parties and see what they think. If all goes well, I might have something I really want to work on. As the title of this thread says, I seriously want to draw a comic. But knowing me, It'll probably take me about 2 years to do it and that is with dedication to keep picking it up. Life gets in the way at this age and you find more important things to do. You just have to tell yourself to go back to it when you have the time. Once you stop for any real period of time, you almost never pick it up again. I do think I have something I want to do though. So, Im gonna wrestle with it and let things sort out as it is. Right now, Im getting ready to start a new job and Im going to college at the same time. I really better love what I want to do or I wont do it. So the key for me is to love it and then get started. I think I have something in mind... Ohh I see. And good luck man. And I can understand about burn out. Although I've never exactly had a burn out, more like disinterest or distractions or whatever. No, I don't draw. I write.
|
|
|
Post by bigw1966 on Jan 23, 2010 10:31:28 GMT -5
Well today is a good day. I just received the first two pages from James Hudnalls script for the comic we are going to do together. I am pretty stoked. This guy won an Eisner award for his Lex Luthor Biography. So I look at this as being my opening to finally getting a shot.
I will keep you up to date.
|
|