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Post by G on Jun 27, 2010 20:34:46 GMT -5
I guess the ones that are left are morons. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in a complete run. Unfortunately, the comic companies only wish to exploit their fans, and have no interest in promoting a collector's pride in what they collect. Wow! Even though that is so blatantly obvious, seeing it as an opinion from a comic fan seems like it's such an interesting and eye-opening concept. Has it really gotten to the point where comic companies are seeing their customers as just suckers? Is there really no desire to take care of the customers that take care of them anymore??? What amazes me is we sit around and talk how obvious things are and then its like....damn, this IS obvious! They really are trying to fuck us over!
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 27, 2010 21:07:15 GMT -5
I guess the ones that are left are morons. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in a complete run. Unfortunately, the comic companies only wish to exploit their fans, and have no interest in promoting a collector's pride in what they collect. Wow! Even though that is so blatantly obvious, seeing it as an opinion from a comic fan seems like it's such an interesting and eye-opening concept. Has it really gotten to the point where comic companies are seeing their customers as just suckers? Is there really no desire to take care of the customers that take care of them anymore??? What amazes me is we sit around and talk how obvious things are and then its like....damn, this IS obvious! They really are trying to fuck us over! All we are is $$$ to them. Nothing more. The creators like being praised, but they only listen to complaints about the other creators, not themselves. That's why I'm fed up and I'm not buying anything new. That's why I don't shut up and go away. They lied and took my money too many times. The hobby used to listen to fans, now they listen only to ass kissers and money directed their way. Sad. df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 28, 2010 7:08:37 GMT -5
Was there any other target customer with that move other than their loyal collectors? It's almost like they took their own collectors on. Sorta like........ "You wanna see your comic numbers stay the same? Well buy the 10:1 variants or you'll have to do without....
BWWAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"I typically see DC taking a higher road most of the time, but that was a Marvel quality move there! DCE is being run by people who know next to nothing about comics and all they want is to make a lot of money. It's not about creating high quailty books or products, it's all about the money now. Marvel is no better.
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Post by G on Jun 28, 2010 7:42:01 GMT -5
It's not about creating high quailty books or products, it's all about the money now. Marvel is no better. It has appeared for a long time now that Marvel was only about money and the quality of the books except in only a few cases was just short of drek. Marvel seems totally overtaken with following the trends and fads of today and hardly anything else anymore. It's all mini-series, one-shots, poses, staredowns and empty interiors. I have never seen Marvel in a weaker looking state as I do now in terms of quality. It used to be at any given time, if I didn't like a Marvel book, the next one would be just fine. They have gotten to where the lineup is ALMOST total shit. With just a few exceptions, Marvel has lost it's integrity. I think combining with Disney has just made it worse. It's gotten too corporate and the bottom line is the only thing that matters with them. I seen DC on the other hand as actually being a bit more legit with their output. I seen them trying a bit harder to put out a quality comic and not give in as much to the fads. True, they fell victim to it a lot too. And they have plenty of books and covers where it's a joke to even look that way. But on a whole, I was seeing them making the appearance of trying to look legit. A few of their books still seem of higher quality and worksmanship. But this deal with the pricing on regular number variants! I mean since when has the regular number ever been a variant? I think the 1-12 (or however many) should have been the variant. This really does take on their customers who have been loyal to the series. You know in the end these companies are out to make money and its not about giving you quality books as much as it is to get more green into their stash. But still, that's about as low a move as you can make as a company. Someone had to purpose that. Someone had to agree to that. And in all, it was totally a move to take advantage of their loyal readers. That's the real sickening part of it. It's so god damn blatant!
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 28, 2010 16:10:46 GMT -5
If you think about it, there is no valid reason to do variants except to coax more people out of money. Until people just say "screw you" and quit supporting it, the practice will continue.
df1
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 28, 2010 16:49:13 GMT -5
It's not about creating high quailty books or products, it's all about the money now. Marvel is no better. It has appeared for a long time now that Marvel was only about money and the quality of the books except in only a few cases was just short of drek. Marvel seems totally overtaken with following the trends and fads of today and hardly anything else anymore. It's all mini-series, one-shots, poses, staredowns and empty interiors. I have never seen Marvel in a weaker looking state as I do now in terms of quality. It used to be at any given time, if I didn't like a Marvel book, the next one would be just fine. They have gotten to where the lineup is ALMOST total shit. With just a few exceptions, Marvel has lost it's integrity. I think combining with Disney has just made it worse. It's gotten too corporate and the bottom line is the only thing that matters with them. I agree 100%. DC has been shit for over the last 5 years. The reason DC got away with it is because everybody (except DC fans) thought they sucked anyway and nobody cared what they did until Marvel started sucking so much that it made the shit coming out DC look great. The only reason why everybody is saying DC is better now has nothing to do with quality it's just that they're putting out the same shit that they have in the last 10 years, it's just that Marvel's shit is worse. DC has more go-nowhere story lines, characters returning from the dead every 6 weeks, multiple covers (which they have been doing for just as long if not longer than Marvel again they got away with it for a lot longer because they weren't doing 50/50 ratios and only doing for certain issues) they have been regressing their characters and concepts to such a point where the entire DCU is just plain stupid. The question one really should ask is this: is continuing a series like Adventure Comics from it's original numbering is a really good idea? There was the mentality in the 90s and early 00s where series that long runs (500-700 issues) were seen as hurting sales. That's why many of the longest running and popular series had been canceled and restarted. Now the attitude seemed to go in the other way where a series that had over 100 issues were seen as a good thing and Marvel especially and DC began to figure out ways to revert the numbering back even if the series had been restarted years after it's original cancellation ( X-Factor and Adventure Comics are perfect examples of this). I know the historical value of Adventure Comics but this series was originally canceled almost 25-30 years ago! This isn't a series that has been around other incarnations other than an 80 Page Giant one shot a couple of years ago I don't recall DC publishing any other series or other one-shots called Adventure Comics. The only reason that I can think of for this stunt is too have another series with a high number count and too see if it can work on other more well known series The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Justice League of America, The Legion of Super-Heroes, Teen Titans, Justice Society of America, and more. DCE did it with Wonder Woman because the timing worked out for them, but I guess that they don't feel like waiting around till an opportunity like that comes around for all their other titles, so I think it's a safe bet that you will be seeing more of this from DCE in the coming months and years because fans and collectors like the one DF1 quoted are too concerned with keeping their long runs and egos intact than getting a high quality product. Welcome to America 2010.
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Post by G on Jun 28, 2010 18:20:30 GMT -5
DC has been shit for over the last 5 years. The reason DC got away with it is because everybody (except DC fans) thought they sucked anyway and nobody cared what they did until Marvel started sucking so much that it made the shit coming out DC look great. The only reason why everybody is saying DC is better now has nothing to do with quality it's just that they're putting out the same shit that they have in the last 10 years, it's just that Marvel's shit is worse. DC has more go-nowhere story lines, characters returning from the dead every 6 weeks, multiple covers (which they have been doing for just as long if not longer than Marvel again they got away with it for a lot longer because they weren't doing 50/50 ratios and only doing for certain issues) they have been regressing their characters and concepts to such a point where the entire DCU is just plain stupid. LOL! Well doesn't suck less, mean....suck less? Hey, I grew up a Marvel Zombie. I'd prefer that Marvel be kicking ass, but Marvel is just plain stupid to me now. Except for the 1 in 20 comic, the other 95% just sucks. I guess DC is more like 1 in 10, so the other 90% sucks. So I guess they suck A LITTLE less now. But its sad for me to admit that DC sucks less. But I personally think they do. Not by much, but they're putting up a better front. Marvel ain't even fronting. They just out there sucking! They just out of the closet. Yeah, I may play ignorant for the sake of the discussion, but I know what's up.
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Post by bigw1966 on Jun 29, 2010 14:59:20 GMT -5
Man you guys are going to call me dumb ass for this, but here goes.
comic companies have since the beginning been all about the money and doing what they felt they needed to to get that money. This has never changed. Its just that being older we recognize it and do not agree with it.
Comics have always been about following trends. Since Day 1. Batman was created because of Superman. Wonder Woman because of them. Shazam because of Superman. It has been the case the whole time. I mean these are business's that are in the business of making money off of cheap entertainment.
They have NEVER, EVER, cared about the collectors beyond coming up with Ideas that
A.) kept them buying comics and B.)Got them to spend more money on said comics.
That is why multiple covers have become the norm instead of a special issue incentive.
Now Adventure Comics is actually going through a bit of a format change. 515 may be the Issue also. The change is them having the book revolve around other characters like Lex and the Shield and Cadmus and Jimmy Olson and so on while no longer having Superman be the main title character, much less featured in any of the stories.
That could have something to do with it.
I wholly disagree with all of you that the people running the companies do not know comics. In the 90's that was a true Statement
All of DC's people know comics very well. Geoff Johns knows the histories of the characters, respects them and knows how to build Interesting stories with them.
Jim Lee not only managed to have the most consistently successful studio from Image, but he also sold it to DC for over amillion Dollars while also Securing himself a permanent position as the Editorial director of it. A position that lead him to become DC's #2
didio has been writing comics and television for a long time. He has been running DC for a long time. (yes he has made mistakes, but he has had more success than you realize.
At Marvel, Quesada created and Edited the highly popular MAX line of books which still continues to this day.
He had his own independent company with a couple of good regular release titles that managed to come out pretty regularly.
That got him promoted to EIC a position that he has held longer than anyone not named Stan Lee. He also has made mistakes. But he is human. He has obviously had a lot of success while on the Job, otherwise he would have been out long ago and not promoted like he recently was.
granted you guys may think he sucks, but facts are facts.
The Industry has to continue to increase its bottom line. that is why you see so many mini's coming out. Test books or smaller self contained stories that at the end of the day find a place on someones pull list or just in their extra books of the week purchases.
From a company standpoint, that IS a success.
As I stated before, I have no interest in multiple covers so I do not chase them. I buy the one I think looks cool. Unless I have to pay $25 for it. Then I will take the crap one.
Its not that I have low standards or poor taste, I buy what I like. If it lets me down I do not buy it anymore. Like Spider-Man and the X-MEN.
I look at it like this, If I have a stack of comics, and I take certain titles and move them to the bottom of the stack and then find excuses to not read them sometimes until the following Wednesday, then I do not need that title.
I also predominately only purchase trades nowadays. that way I have the whole story in one sitting.
I used to look at comics from a collectors standpoint, but as someone who also enjoys reading comics I felt that I was doing myself more of a diservice whenever I put to much thought into how the companies didn't respect me as a collector.
they do not disrespect us overall, because they try to work hard to maintain coherent universes for us. But even that is an effort to maintain our continued business.
Remember, Its a business at any time of the day. We are just a means to an end.
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Post by cyberstrike on Jun 29, 2010 18:37:13 GMT -5
Man you guys are going to call me dumb ass for this, but here goes. comic companies have since the beginning been all about the money and doing what they felt they needed to to get that money. This has never changed. Its just that being older we recognize it and do not agree with it. Comics have always been about following trends. Since Day 1. Batman was created because of Superman. Wonder Woman because of them. Shazam because of Superman. It has been the case the whole time. I mean these are business's that are in the business of making money off of cheap entertainment. They have NEVER, EVER, cared about the collectors beyond coming up with Ideas that A.) kept them buying comics and B.)Got them to spend more money on said comics. That is why multiple covers have become the norm instead of a special issue incentive. No, it's there as long as stupid collectors and fans buy and support them. DCE just recently reverted the numbering on Wonder Woman from vol. 3 #50 to vol. 1 #600 to promote the start of JMS' writing it, DCE got away with because the timing worked out for them, but it could take them years to get a book like Green Lantern ready for legacy numbering because the movie is coming out next year. It looks better for them to have a character that has been around since the 60s to have a series that has a number like #600 than #60 does it. Adventure Comics is the test run for DCE to pull this shit again. Dibio, Lee, and Johns ALL answer to CEO and Chairperson at DCE (and they answer to the heads of Time-Warner), just as Marvel's publisher, Dan Buckley, Joe Quasada. and Jeph Loeb all answer to the executives at Disney. No corporate executive worth his or her salt gives a damn about the customers or employees to their business as long as that person makes money that is all they care about.
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Post by defiant1 on Jun 29, 2010 21:02:08 GMT -5
DCE just recently reverted the numbering on Wonder Woman from vol. 3 #50 to vol. 1 #600 to promote the start of JMS' writing it, DCE got away with because the timing worked out for them, but it could take them years to get a book like Green Lantern ready for legacy numbering because the movie is coming out next year. It looks better for them to have a character that has been around since the 60s to have a series that has a number like #600 than #60 does it. Adventure Comics is the test run for DCE to pull this shit again. Actually, DC has milked all the eager collectors wanting a #1 so much that nobody gives a damn. They want to get back the old time collectors and milk those that want to take pride in having a full set or long run of the original series. I think it's too late now. Eventually they are going to realize people are wanting a story, not a number on the book. Til Dickeo is fired, I'm not buying any DC comics. I may not even buy them then. I really don't care if comic publishers quit publishing new material or if my LCS goes out of business. Neither are supplying anything I want to buy. The family photo covers are just one aspect of the problem. Variants are another aspect of the problem. They've forgotten what their core purpose is. df1
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