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Post by cyberstrike on Aug 19, 2009 6:25:58 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest Jim Shooter and the Gold Key characters have been of very little interest to me. I'm far more excited about DH publishing Mass Effect: Redemption than Jim Shooter writing a pair of the Gold Key characters again.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 11, 2010 19:05:21 GMT -5
Well, preliminary estimates are that Solar #1 sold around 19,000 copies. Well, a few less is what someone calculated. I banned one of my board members today because I got sick of his over-the-top praise of the GK books and his resentment that I disagree. The same person was insulting everyone at the "Dark-Key" forum that didn't immediately praise the books and talk positively about them. JayJay was so taken back by it that she asked me what she should do as an admin. She eventually deleted the thread at a very opportune moment.
My feeling is that the numbers are pretty pathetic considering it was on the cover of Previews and reached only a #91 slot on the sales chart. 19,000 copies means that the book pulled in around $35,000 before all expenses. My guess is that at least $15,000 goes towards printing costs. I think a Previews cover would cost them a pretty penny. Jim's page rates aren't cheap. The artist have been inking their own work to my own dismay, so they are likely shaving costs on an inker. They still have to pay a colorist, a letterer. I wish I could remember what Bob Burden said was a typical advertising budget. I think he said you need to spend at least $10,000. To be honest, if the numbers are true, it only did half as well as I expected. Considering they didn't start to advertise or promote the books until after the retailers order it, I shouldn't be shocked. Why they'd wait that late in the game amazes me. The retailer is the customer they have to convince to order the book... NOT the end comic reader. If the retailer isn't excited and ordering aggressively, he's not going to get his customers excited.
The board member I banned seems to think this is a wonderful sales start. If so, why did Dark Horse immediately replace the artist for #2? They must not have been happy with the results of #1. To be honest, the work of the guy replacing the artist from #1 makes me cringe. The guy doesn't draw anatomy in proportions and I find it distracting.
I expect Magnus #1 to have better numbers. The question will be "How many return buyers come back for Solar #2?". Sales inherently drop after #1, but how low will they go?
This isn't the 90's either. In the 90's, there was a flow of customers walking through the door and "Word of mouth" praise would get overheard by three or four other customers. You had an in-store chat forum getting people hyped up about the comics. If Solar excites someone on issue #5, the shops I go to are almost empty. There won't be 3 or 4 other customers listening. Their excitement will fall on deaf ears.
I've pretty much heard a scoop that Shooter will not be writing Mighty Samson. That was the title I looked forward to the most! It was not bogged down with everyone's preconceived notion of who he should be.
The book I've questioned all along was Turok. Does anyone really care about an Indian running around evading dinosaurs? Seriously!? A stripped down Hawkeye? I'm sorry, but I saw no potential for him at Valiant.
df1
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Post by G on Aug 11, 2010 23:38:00 GMT -5
I received my copy about a week ago from my preorder along with about 20 other books in that shipment and I gotta say, it was one of the most uninteresting looking books in my stack. I spent some time later and flipped through it and it was so unmemorable, I don't even remember anything I saw. I might will myself to read it to give the book a respectable chance, but this effort to relaunch Valiant is so uninspired looking, it's starting to make me feel the Acclaim runs were more visually appealing even though they were far inferior to their VH1 predecessors.
Every time I see a cover for Magnus it has the same look to it each time. Magnus swinging at a robot with the same color schemes as every other cover shot. I'm simply not impressed with any of it so far. I honestly have other new books that I actually want to read. This looks like the same old drek we've seen all the other comic companies do except now Dark Horse is doing it much later with this run. More pose covers and poster shots. It's not bringing back memories of the old Valiant glory by any stretch. I almost wish Marvel, DC or even Image did the relaunch. This just looks boring to me.
I've almost begun hoping this falls completely flat and the Valiant fad can finally die once and for all. The original Solar 1-10 was fantastic. Magnus 1-12 was thrilling. Here we are nearly 20 years later and it looks so damn flat. It's a damn shame. I'm literally more interested in Shadowland than this. And that's just sad.
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Post by cyberstrike on Aug 12, 2010 12:52:26 GMT -5
You know your books in trouble when the 60s reprints back ups are better than the main attraction. And the 60s GK comics were some of the worse written comics ever.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 12, 2010 20:16:15 GMT -5
Here is a repost of my comments on the vcs board regarding print runs...
I thought the book would sell about the same number as his Legion run or a little better. Legion was up into the high issue numbers. It didn't necessarily appeal to Valiant fans so some of Jim's fan base was disinterested. Solar is launching the new line of comics. Based on other factors going on in the industry, I felt that 40,000 copies was a VERY achievable number and would be a healthy start.
Seeing estimates below 20,000 does NOT shock me after seeing how Dark Horse has mismanaged the marketing for this project. Dark Horse did not even start putting articles and interviews out on the web until AFTER the book was ordered. That is the most ignorant logic I can imagine. Dark Horse's first customer in the chain IS NOT YOU AND ME!!! If they want retailers pushing this book, the need to have the articles and teasers getting the RETAILERS excited BEFORE they order the book. The retailer is their first customer. He orders the comics that hit the shelves and go in the pull boxes. The retailer determines whether the supply is adequate and whether their customers know the book is out there. Marketing should not start when the book is solicited.
I subscribed to Dark Horse's Twitter feed and received every post update in my email inbox. I use my email every single day. I saw day after day and month after month of not one f##king update or teaser ahout this project. WTF is this person doing for them if it isn't to entice people to pick up upcoming projects? Small updates on to Twitter could have been picked up by hundreds of fans and rolled out positive posts to messageboards all over the web. No, they were too busy talking about some publication that looks like it would have been rejected by Fantagraphics or Slave Labor without blinking an eye. Jim Shooter's launch should have had some kind of update weekly even if it was just gossip about the proposed artistic team. This relaunch was potentially tapping a completely new and very loyal audience who would not have considered picking up one of their publications otherwise. I WAS going to be one of those people. Dark Horse is ultimately the reason I'm not doing it. I am not interested in writing projects where Shooter does not have full control and editorial steering. I like Water. Water mixed with Dirt is Mud. I don't like mud. I like Shooter. Shooter mixed with management that can't promote a book or adhere to getting a script presented correctly is no different than mud in my opinion. I wasn't anticipating Jim's return so I could see them spell his name correctly on the cover.
My understanding is that Chris Warner has read my comments online and has the attitude that "oh well",... "some people won't like it"....."it isn't Valiant". My reply to that is "Wow!". Why the hell would someone feel perfectly content to alienate Jim's largest AND MOST VOCAL fan base on the web? That is EXACTLY how Bob Layton screwed up after Shooter was gone from Valiant. He was so stubbornly determined to take things in his own editorial direction and not be what Jim had developed on the pre-unity storylines that he turned every single title to crap. Thank God I had enough foresight to jump ship and trade my duplicate comics for Silver age key books like Amazing Fantasy #15 & Hulk #1. Thank heavens I have foresight to know what I will or will not regret buying.
My question is this.... It starts at 20,000 copies. You can't get a better ad spot in Previews than a cover. I don't think buying a spot on the cover of Previews is cheap. This was the first book on their regular production run. How low do the sales go now? This is a book retailers should have order very aggressively. I'm more interested in the second issue sales numbers and the third.
I've seen mixed signals going around that some of these title launches are mini-series. You've said they aren't... but why the confusion? Why doesn't Dark Horse themselves clarify the confusion since this could directly affect consumer confidence? They do have a Twitter feed which I quit following. Any idiot could post a one line update on Twitter. Could it possibly be that they want the option to go either way? I'm merely asking because I'm tired of the guessing and I'm not going to guess. THEY SHOULD KNOW.
My understanding about the quality problems with the first Solar book is that the problems were "poor communication". I don't for one second believe that lapse is due to Jim. I've seen his scripts. A Legion artist told me the one he used looked like a phone book and even had pictures and links to the web for more background information. I've talked to enough artists and seen enough comments on the borders of artwork that I know he communicates. If poor communication is the problem, I've got a good idea where that problem begins. It's from the same people that decide to promote a book AFTER the orders have already been placed.
I have no sympathy for flat out stupidity... even from myself. Criticize me all you want. If I come to agree, I'll tell you I'm wrong and learn my lesson.
Being proud about a 20,000 print run order when you've bought a cover ad on Previews is sad. Of course, in this industry, publishers are proud to announce when comics sell out. Comics are supposed to sell out. They are printed to order. If you order five, the distributor is only supposed to supply five. It should sell out every single time. I'm so f##king sick of this industry playing with f##king words so they can pretend what they do is adequate. It isn't.
The quality inspector has spoken. I've been paid for my opinion for 16 full years. I have zero lack of confidence regarding my assessment. I think this relaunch is being mismanaged at multiple levels. I personally want no part of it and I'm not going to pay $3.50 for ANY ongoing monthly comic unless it's written by Jesus Christ himself. Scattered issues I can see. That price for a monthly comic is not acceptable. Maybe if they hadn't given away the FCBD comics to the 60,000 people who weren't interested in Solar #1, the ongoing books could have been offered cheaper.
I support Jim Shooter. Let me know if Dark Horse publishes a comic with his vision intact.
df1
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 12, 2010 20:24:48 GMT -5
You know your books in trouble when the 60s reprints back ups are better than the main attraction. And the 60s GK comics were some of the worse written comics ever. It's obvious that this relaunch is trying desperately to spike interest in their reprints. Why the Hell would they publish a reprint of GK Magnus #1 for a dollar? It's solicited. Who the F#@k cares? For the past 35 years, that book hasn't interested me. Why would a dollar reprint interest me? df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 13, 2010 7:47:56 GMT -5
I have Solar #1 in my pull box since It came out. I have not been in a hurry to pick it up.
honestly, I see no reason to make the book at all. They pretty much said all that needed to be said about the Character in the first Valient Volume. After that, every version was a bit weaker than the last. Same with Magnus. It just smacks of a retread to me.
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Post by G on Aug 13, 2010 14:29:01 GMT -5
Just because it's been spoken around here and I thought it would be hypocritical of me to make such harsh comments on it without reading it, I decided to read it today. Now it's like complaining after you vote. Now I have the right.
I don't want to be totally negative against the book, it was a respectable comic in its own right, but being it is the official relaunch of Valiant characters I cannot help but feel completely underwhelmed.
The story wasn't horrendous but it wasn't gripping good stuff either. You can tell Shooter is doing an introduction and build up, but the premise of a writer who's thoughts come to life in the form of super villains and smelly drunken sluts who come looking for the mind that created them seemed weak. This 3rd rate villain called Leviathan seemed hardly a challenge to Solar and yet he disposes of him into a dumpster at the end of the book. The whole time it appears Solar is just "holding back" I guess to protect those around him and the villain itself and yet he gets taken down. It didn't feel believable. It felt like the Uncle Ben murderer taking down Spiderman when we know Spiderman could just mop the floor with the guy.
My biggest beef with the book is the art. Calero's work seems very choppy. At times you see beautiful panels that make you feel right there including crisp photogenic backgrounds, followed too often with panels with solid backgrounds and solid colors and way overused photoshop effects. When done right, the so called "Noir" style can be amazing and gives the feeling of watching a movie. But I think it has to be solid throughout. It can't drift in and out of completeness the way Calero does. While it's undeniable Calero can draw, the overall body of work looks amateur. It reminded me of when I preorder new books and buy from the usual suspect companies and just because I want to try something different, I'll buy an independent or small press company only to receive it and notice just how incomplete the books looks compared to the big boys. This reminded me of that feeling. It wasn't complete enough. I expected more from a company the caliber of Dark Horse. I expected more from the historical significance of it being the relaunch of the Valiant Universe. I expected more because it was a relaunch with Jim Shooter doing it. Unfortunately, in every aspect, it underwhelmed. It was a decent comic when thrown in with every other comic that comes out on a monthly basis. But it didn't have one element to make it stand on the upper tier with some other solid books from the same time slot. This appears to be a mid packer at very best. At least the 1st issue felt that way. I'd be willing to give it some time to shake things out and progress. But as it stands today, I still think from the stack of books I got this past week from my mail order, this one won't make it into the top half of the stack. This was just ordinary.
I expected more. And if Valiant fanatics are overly excited about this book finally hitting the shelves, I really think they need to spread out their horizons a LOT more when it comes to comics. They're only convincing themselves that its awesome while the rest of us sit back and yawn.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 13, 2010 21:20:17 GMT -5
I have Solar #1 in my pull box since It came out. I have not been in a hurry to pick it up. honestly, I see no reason to make the book at all. They pretty much said all that needed to be said about the Character in the first Valient Volume. After that, every version was a bit weaker than the last. Same with Magnus. It just smacks of a retread to me. I share that sentiment. I am far more interested to see Shooter write Mighty Samson or Dr. Spektor. I'm now being told Mighty Samson is not going to be written by Shooter. I also would like to see Shooter write the two I mention because I feel they are a little out of his element. I think Monsters and Horror would be a challenge for him and I'd like to see what he could do with them. df1
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 13, 2010 21:25:20 GMT -5
G,
I thought you were going to review Magnus #1. Solar has been out awhile. The artist on Solar #1 left out a lot of the elements in the script. He was swapped out after #2 was solicited. JayJay is now saying that closer to 27,000 issues of Solar came out. They squeezed some orders out at San Diego. Costs are associated with any promotions. Did the sales gained at San Diego justify the costs associated with going? Probably so, but it ate a chunk into any profits.
df1
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