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Post by defiant1 on Aug 16, 2010 21:58:54 GMT -5
when Valient first launched, It came at a time when people were looking for a superhero option that wasn't Marvel or DC. Valiant moreso than Dark horse answered that call. Their mix of new characters with old classics had a punch and a nice hook to tie them all together. But, a lot of the failure of Valient does rest on Shooter's shoulders. the mans reputation of having to much hands on control and his my way or the highway attitude caused it to crumble. This is the same issue that has dogged Shooter his entire career. People know this about him and it makes it hard for anyone to want to give him work. If your going to bring Valiant characters back, bring back Eternal Warrior and the Shadowman. those could easily continue at any company. I just cannot find Interest in reading comics about two characters who already had their pinnicles reached almost 20 years ago. Magnus and Solar both reached their logical conclusion. Those stories still stand on their own. there was nothing left to tell. cyberstrike. you can thank Secret Wars for creating the Idea of the huge companywide crossover story event that makes up so much of comics today. That is its legacy far more than the symbiote costume. When I got back into comics after a 6 year hiatus, I turned to Valiant because I couldn't stand the art in Marvel Comics. I wasn't looking for an alternative to Marvel. I was looking for something that had the feel of Marvel Comics when I quit buying then in the early 80's. Valiant was better than what I'd remembered. I loved the painted pages. The inking reminded me of what I liked. It wasn't all that cross hatch crap. The only complaint I had was telling apart some of the women that David Lapham had drawn and maybe the English faces BWS drew on all his characters. Perlin's simplistic pencils didn't bother me because I like his layouts. I liked a house style and I feel it facilitates storytelling on a larger scale. Shooter is criticized for the amount of control he wants, but he does it for a reason. I generally agree with his reasons. As a collector who has followed his writing the past 20 years, I want the books he has envisioned. Jim has literally been blacklisted so long, that now he's trying to "pick his battles" and he's letting a lot slide. That is not the stories I want to read. In his Legion storyline, they show a desolate palace and then do a flashback to how grand it had once been. The only difference between the two images is a few throw pillows. I can look at elements in the art and know the artist did not draw what was in the script. That is also the problem with the DH Solar #1. The artist did not draw what was in the script and portions of the script were posted whichg show this to be the case. Sanford Greene told me he purposely drew things like he wanted and ignored Jim's comments in the script. For example they had to alter pages in the comic to show that some of the characters were lifting stones with their power rings, not their own physical strength. Jim defines balances and interactions on a very detailed level. That level prompts curiosity which gets lost in most comics. It creates a "What if" feeling and it helps the comics start writing themselves after awhile in an extremely cohesive manner. If the artists are just doing what the hell they want, you don't need Jim. His story will not come through and you are pissing money away by hiring him and tarnishing his reputation even further. That is the gripe I have with Dark Horse. They are not doing me a favor by hiring him to write the artist's idea of what the comic should be. DC put Shooter working with Francis Manapul who doesn't even speak English. It's easy to say Jim Shooter is more controlling, but he's also trying to increase the level of storytelling in an industry that's happy publishing shallow mindless crap that that is a clone of some other comic in the past 40 years of writing. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 20, 2010 9:30:23 GMT -5
I don't reqally disagree with what you posted df1 but Shooter who does want to put out good stories does have a huge reputation in regards to the things I listed.
I don't know if Manapul speaks english or not, but the guy can definitely write it. He is a Twitter junkie and I chat with him on facebook and devientART. I dig the guys work immensly. Very dynamic with great page layouts. Plus he is doing like 3 books a month. also, his watercolor work is fucking insane!
As far as that Sanford Greene guy is concerned, If he was given a detailed script and decided he didn't feel like drawing that script, then he should be fired and not put on anything else. Unless of course he writes it so he can then draw whatever he wants.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 20, 2010 20:46:27 GMT -5
I don't reqally disagree with what you posted df1 but Shooter who does want to put out good stories does have a huge reputation in regards to the things I listed. I don't know if Manapul speaks english or not, but the guy can definitely write it. He is a Twitter junkie and I chat with him on facebook and devientART. I dig the guys work immensly. Very dynamic with great page layouts. Plus he is doing like 3 books a month. also, his watercolor work is fucking insane! As far as that Sanford Greene guy is concerned, If he was given a detailed script and decided he didn't feel like drawing that script, then he should be fired and not put on anything else. Unless of course he writes it so he can then draw whatever he wants. Georges Jeanty (Buffy artist) told me he talked to Jim in San Diego and Jim said he had to work through a translator on Legion. That *might* not be Manapul writing in English on Twitter. It might be an agent or someone translating his words. As far as 'firing' artists that don't follow a script... Callero was dropped on Solar #2 after it was solicited. Jim's scripts are like the old phone books with nested layers for pictures, internet links, and other details. In other words, it's real work. Shooter tried to enlist Curt Swan to draw for Broadway. Curt was sent a script with reference photos. Curt Swan turned the job down because he didn't want to draw real places and things. He wanted to draw imaginary settings where things didn't have to be perfect. That's the difference. Harbinger #2 takes place in Tucker & Decatur Ga. It's been my stomping ground for my entire life. Those issues are incredibly cool to me because Lapham did an excellent job and it looks like the area where I live, not some city street in New York. I am also not disputing anything you said about Jim's reputation. I've heard better and worse depending upon whose opinion you want to hear. The truth in situations like that is usually in the middle. The bad rumors are probably true and the good ones are too. What you don't get from a rumor is Jim' s motive, intent, or the full story. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 21, 2010 8:45:56 GMT -5
Yeah I heard he wrote scripts similar to how Alan Moore does. A 22 page book with a 200 page script.
Surprised about Curt Swann. I always considered him to be one of the better Silver Age Illustrators At least in regards to Superheroes. But I can see your point if he was bitching about drawing actual locations.
Manapul might have a translator app on his PC that translates all of his stuff before he posts.
Either way the kid is a solid artist.
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 21, 2010 9:45:02 GMT -5
Manapul might have a translator app on his PC that translates all of his stuff before he posts. Either way the kid is a solid artist. He drew some female figures immaculately, but that was the exception in my opinion. For the most part, all his characters looked exactly alike except for the logo on their chest and maybe a 4 o'clock shadow for a beard. Too much Manga influence so I didn't care for it at all. He has potential, but in my opinion it'll never be realized without more attention to details. df1
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 22, 2010 10:42:06 GMT -5
Here is a link to his devientART profile. The guy has solid page layouts in my opinion and hiw watercolor work is just frikkin gorgeous. Check out that Spirit in the rain Image or his Batman covers. Really prolific work. manapul.deviantart.com/
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Post by defiant1 on Aug 22, 2010 16:06:21 GMT -5
Here is a link to his devientART profile. The guy has solid page layouts in my opinion and hiw watercolor work is just frikkin gorgeous. Check out that Spirit in the rain Image or his Batman covers. Really prolific work. manapul.deviantart.com/I think the backgrounds look great on the Daredevil piece, but Daredevil himself looks terrible. I can't stand his style. The more he draws characters, the more they look alike. Some artists don't even draw their own backgrounds, so I might not even be complimenting his work. He has potential, but he's caught up drawing the same stylized crap all the wanna-be manga artists try to draw. I've said it before... artists need to draw serious work or draw cartoons. The middle ground just looks amateurish. G's characters look better than some of the pro work out there. I know he's drawing based on reference images, but at least he's started getting the anatomy transferred over correctly. Evidently the pros are even copying poses in magazines and other comics. Pros have been doing that for years... even the legends... so there should be no shame in using reference images.
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Post by G on Aug 22, 2010 18:05:19 GMT -5
I'm not trying to pile on here Mike, I've already been on record as saying I don't like this guys work. In pieces he looks great, he does have talent, but I agree his Manga influences and over stylization distracs from his overall work and personally I can't stomach his work over a whole comic. If I see his name on preorder credits, I'm not buying regardless of book, his name alone means no sale for me. He does have the potential to eventually get me to change my mind but not until he drops the style crap and just does nothing but serious work. I forget what Jim said about him on Legion but it was something to the affect of when he's ready to be a good artist, he will be. But not yet.
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Post by bigw1966 on Aug 23, 2010 8:35:53 GMT -5
Actually Shooter gave him high praise as an Artist and did not want anyone to blame him for Legions failure.
I like his covers and his Watercolor work. As far as his manga influenced style, the guy is Philipino. He lives in Canada now but growing up I am sure 99% of the comics he saw were Manga comics. So I doubt he was influenced by many american masters.
I don't mind if you disagree, but his work is solid and does exactly what it is supposed to do and that is serve the needs of the story.
Some of his flash images are wonky to me, and I don't elevate him to high level status, but he is much better than a number of Artists considered more talented.
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Post by G on Aug 23, 2010 9:10:48 GMT -5
He did compliment him, but he also followed it up with negativity as well. If I remember correctly, he wasn't too thrilled with how he represented what he was asking him to do. Although he threw in compliments he clearly didn't sound too pleased either.
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