|
Post by azbatx on Nov 30, 2009 16:36:54 GMT -5
I got a copy of this in the mail today. I enjoyed it. I can see this series getting better as it goes. So far in issue 1 they showcased Youngblood, Spawn, Savage Dragon and Cyberforce. They got this new guy named Fortress who is the only thing I don't like about the series so far. Here is the cover I got. It's limited to 1000 copies
|
|
|
Post by defiant1 on Nov 30, 2009 17:46:58 GMT -5
When I first heard about this, it reminded me of some comments I made to Eric Larsen on a messageboard. He never responded, but I can't help but feel that the words I said led to this crossover. I tried to compliment the achievements of Image while also pointing out the negative affects of each creator doing his own thing as opposed to do what Marvel used to do. Glad to see them take a step in this direction.
df1
|
|
|
Post by G on Nov 30, 2009 19:15:12 GMT -5
As much as I came to loathe them back in the early 90s, they now seem a bit nostalgic. If Image never changed or adapted, I would still have the same angst against them. I wouldn't say I love them to any degree, but I've come to look at them for possible purchases more than I ever have. I wouldn't mind having this book, although I'm not too impressed by the cover. Still it seems as though Liefeld continues to ever slowly improve and his style is still eye catching. But I also can't help but notice the flaws. I think that is the style if I remember correctly.
|
|
|
Post by azbatx on Nov 30, 2009 21:36:45 GMT -5
you can get the 6 regular covers. they all combine to form this image
|
|
|
Post by defiant1 on Nov 30, 2009 23:41:07 GMT -5
Here is the exchange I had with Eric...
Eric wrote this..
My reply... Don't get me wrong. I hung out around so many local comic shops, I had plenty of chances to read Image books, and I tried occasionally. I found Spawn to be ungodly boring. Well drawn, but lacking story content. I read maybe a years worth of Gen 13. Six months worth of Witchblade. I prefer a more interactive storylines. By no means am I talking mega-crossovers like Civil War or 52. I do mean a "universe" where you can immerse yourself in it and it has a ripple effect though other characters. I recall as a kid reading an Avengers issue where the Vision walks through a wall and mentioned some battle he had alongside Spiderman. I thought "cool, I just read about that in Marvel Team-up". It was like I was sitting in the room with the Avengers and I knew details they didn't know. To me it adds a little more depth and relevance to the stories I read. Image lets everyone do their own thing, and for me something is lost. I'm not someone who demands self-contained stories. I prefer the opposite. A superhero soap opera.
And while I'm rambling... I think story arcs intended for TPB's are no different than self-contained stories in the sense that they are stopping points for readers. Life doesn't give people endings to thei life every Saturday night. The stories in people's lives resume Sunday morning. So in a sense it makes the story more realistic for things to continue. I think TPB's kill any reason for collectors--those invested emotionally in the storylines and character-- from having a reason to buy back issues. That means the comic shops have almost no customers for back issues and end up with dead inventory every time they order aggressively and make a mistake. Dead inventory hurts their bottom line and means they have poor cash flow for ordering new comics.
My point is that a lot of changes occurred in the 90's that dramatically changed the experience the reader has been getting. Comic shops are not getting my money for new or old books anymore because they don't have cash flow to buy quality back issues which they could sell to me and make a good mark-up percentage. I'm not buying new books because every story I see is almost a connect the dots logic flow with an ending every six issues. There is no house style, so there is no consistency in the product. A reader can't have a preference in what a character looks like, because three different artist are going to draw three different characters with the same costume. Would you want three different quality detergents being sold under the same brand name? One day your clothes come clean, but tomorrow they won't? Consistency is a good thing.
Again, I know I'm all over the map with this reply, but Image deteriorated a lot of the stabilizing factors that made comics a cohesive product. Applaud for your accomplishments as a founder of Image. You shouldn't be working any job where you aren't happy and you aren't being treated fairly. Today... right now... I think the industry needs to return to a more stable model where people are working towards a common goal. It's a free for all out there with artists refusing to draw storylines because those storylines won't produce art that will sell easily on the secondary market.
I think that if you and John Byrne were both selling a half million copies each of whatever book you were drawing, you would not care nor have time to argue with each other online.
I think readers like me might be pulled back into buying new comics if the philosophy and attitude behind making them was even the least bit open minded about my/our expectations.
Defiant1
|
|
|
Post by G on Dec 1, 2009 11:01:15 GMT -5
you can get the 6 regular covers. they all combine to form this image Although this looks pretty nice and there is nothing wrong with it, it was stuff like this that made me really hate Image.
|
|
|
Post by G on Dec 1, 2009 11:25:37 GMT -5
Here is the exchange I had with Eric... Eric wrote this.. My reply... Don't get me wrong. I hung out around so many local comic shops, I had plenty of chances to read Image books, and I tried occasionally. I found Spawn to be ungodly boring. Well drawn, but lacking story content. I read maybe a years worth of Gen 13. Six months worth of Witchblade. I prefer a more interactive storylines. By no means am I talking mega-crossovers like Civil War or 52. I do mean a "universe" where you can immerse yourself in it and it has a ripple effect though other characters. I recall as a kid reading an Avengers issue where the Vision walks through a wall and mentioned some battle he had alongside Spiderman. I thought "cool, I just read about that in Marvel Team-up". It was like I was sitting in the room with the Avengers and I knew details they didn't know. To me it adds a little more depth and relevance to the stories I read. Image lets everyone do their own thing, and for me something is lost. I'm not someone who demands self-contained stories. I prefer the opposite. A superhero soap opera. And while I'm rambling... I think story arcs intended for TPB's are no different than self-contained stories in the sense that they are stopping points for readers. Life doesn't give people endings to thei life every Saturday night. The stories in people's lives resume Sunday morning. So in a sense it makes the story more realistic for things to continue. I think TPB's kill any reason for collectors--those invested emotionally in the storylines and character-- from having a reason to buy back issues. That means the comic shops have almost no customers for back issues and end up with dead inventory every time they order aggressively and make a mistake. Dead inventory hurts their bottom line and means they have poor cash flow for ordering new comics. My point is that a lot of changes occurred in the 90's that dramatically changed the experience the reader has been getting. Comic shops are not getting my money for new or old books anymore because they don't have cash flow to buy quality back issues which they could sell to me and make a good mark-up percentage. I'm not buying new books because every story I see is almost a connect the dots logic flow with an ending every six issues. There is no house style, so there is no consistency in the product. A reader can't have a preference in what a character looks like, because three different artist are going to draw three different characters with the same costume. Would you want three different quality detergents being sold under the same brand name? One day your clothes come clean, but tomorrow they won't? Consistency is a good thing. Again, I know I'm all over the map with this reply, but Image deteriorated a lot of the stabilizing factors that made comics a cohesive product. Applaud for your accomplishments as a founder of Image. You shouldn't be working any job where you aren't happy and you aren't being treated fairly. Today... right now... I think the industry needs to return to a more stable model where people are working towards a common goal. It's a free for all out there with artists refusing to draw storylines because those storylines won't produce art that will sell easily on the secondary market. I think that if you and John Byrne were both selling a half million copies each of whatever book you were drawing, you would not care nor have time to argue with each other online. I think readers like me might be pulled back into buying new comics if the philosophy and attitude behind making them was even the least bit open minded about my/our expectations. Defiant1 I don't really care for Erik's attitude on his response. It's almost like "some people like it, so don't worry about it" and "We was late with product and promises and the kids lost interest, I blame society". Wow! He done put out reasons why they left. That wasn't society's fault. I like your analogy of the Avengers as well as your points on self contained issues and TPB's. Mini Series has ruined continuity in comics. Speaking of Avengers, I remember a beach scene where the Scarlet Witch was walking on the beach in normal clothes with the Wasp and she was wondering if she was pregnant and at the same time the Vision was distant. It was that "soap opera" that made it interesting. Comics always have the token fights. It's the drama that makes you care about the characters enough to keep coming back. Also I love how events in one series affects another or has implications later elsewhere. That kind of cohesiveness is what I find lacking these days. I'm too old school for my own good, but I do think out loud that the old school method of storytelling was better than today's bite sized nuggets. If anyone remembers the 60's comics, its what made Marvel totally dominate DC, because Marvel was character development and unending stories. DC was 1 story, 1 issue.....Done! Also they was goofy. Marvel's formula just destroyed what DC was doing and eventually they had to adopt it themselves.
|
|
|
Post by defiant1 on Dec 1, 2009 16:13:40 GMT -5
There is no value placed on the characters today, so even if one event does affect the universe, marvel may completely change everything a month from now. The changes that could be relevant now, might not be relevant because they'll do stupid things like kill off characters or have some huge crossover that takes you away from the soap opera aspect. Shock and horror rule. "look what we did to your favorite character! You gotta look... you know you wanna!." I don't have to look and that's not the kind of story I want to read.
Years ago avery intelligent friend of mine made a comment leaving a movie. It stuck with me. He said "The hero wasn't a hero in that movie. All he did was get lucky." His point was that anyone could have stepped out on the adventure in the movie and gotten lucky every step of the way. Nothing in the story about the character defined the character as being someone special or worthy of his reputation. I think the problem with a lot of comics is that they just go through the motions. Anyone can wear an Iron man armor and be iron man. Anyone can pick up Thor's hammer and get called Thor. So the story becomes more about the armor or the hammer rather than the characters. To me that's sad. Stan Lee built personal conflict into his characters. Over time, creators now have taken that out of their writing. Daredevil takes off his mask. Thunderstrike replaces Thor. What about the conflict of being crippled when you don't have the hammer? What about the conflict of being uncool when you don't don the Spiderman costume? What about a genius not being able to solve his love life because his uncontrolled rage turn him into a Hulk and makes him destroy everything around him? Some of that was written into Spawn. I've never seen it in a Liefeld comic. Comics are mostly pretty pictures. If you want to get a good value for word count, pick up an EC comic. Those are far more involved. Words might take up 30% of a page in an EC comic.
I think what image is doing is a step in the right direction. I feel that it was seeded by my comments. I know Eric Larsen has worked with Ditko. He's had some exposure to the roots of this hobby. I saw another post over there that I was proud of making. I may cut and paste it onto my board.
Defiant1
|
|
|
Post by azbatx on Dec 1, 2009 17:27:52 GMT -5
Also I love how events in one series affects another or has implications later elsewhere. That kind of cohesiveness is what I find lacking these days. Now this is what I don't understand. Those of you who do not read new comics or at least read up on them should not be saying this. Since Gowaltrip is a Marvel fan I will use them. So there was a Civil War that led to a Secret Invasion that left them with a Dark Reign to where they are going to have a Siege. It's amazing how all these storylines are running together and are tied into many titles. It's not hard to find a connecting story with implications if you just read the books. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The part where Erik says "I blame society" I don't believe should be taken seriously nor was it meant to be. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I know you don't like the standard comic poses that Image uses on their covers Gowaltrip. Unfortunately many comic companies use them. Even Marvel and DC use them all the time. In fact, I think it's hard not to find covers like this nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by G on Dec 1, 2009 18:26:31 GMT -5
I know you don't like the standard comic poses that Image uses on their covers Gowaltrip. Unfortunately many comic companies use them. Even Marvel and DC use them all the time. In fact, I think it's hard not to find covers like this nowadays. BING!!! I know!!! It ain't a slam on Image, it's a slam on comics!
|
|